10 ms·

What gets me is the way that people will see a picture of a swastika and immediately brand everyone involved as a racist, but then turn around and say that any

What gets me is the way that people will see a picture of a swastika and immediately brand everyone involved as a racist, but then turn around and say that any wrongdoing that happened during a protest for a cause they do agree with was just a couple of bad apples who had nothing to do with the movement. Does that really only happen on one side?

DonHopkins 5y ago
Are you trying to say that there are "very fine people on both sides"?
- colpabar 5y ago
  No, I tried to make my comment thoughtful and hoped someone would want to engage with it so maybe we could learn something.
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - braunjohnson 5y ago
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      What if you don't see the swastika? Should you be branded a Nazi? What happens if there is a good cause that you support and a random person comes with a Nazi flag? Should all the people leave? Protesting would effectively never be able to happen.
      - BizarroLand 5y ago
        [flagged]
        mrhands556 5y ago
        There was a video of them kicking out some dude with a confederate flag. I’ve only seen the Nazi flag in a couple pictures and seemed like it was never in the middle of the rally. Source: https://thepostmillennial.com/canadian-trucker-convoy-confront-masked-man-confederate-flag https://thepostmillennial.com/canadian-trucker-convoy-confro... If you’re trying to discredit a group of people it’s pretty low hanging fruit to send people in with a Nazi flag for great photo ops to show the masses.
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        [flagged]
        mrhands556 5y ago
        I haven’t seen any Nazi flags in the crowd but I haven’t been following it closely.
        chroem- 5y ago
        [flagged]
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        chroem- 5y ago
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        chroem- 5y ago
      - bryanlarsen 5y ago
        It's not "random people". The convoy has white supremacists in leadership positions.
        SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
        bryanlarsen 5y ago
        Justin LaFace, the Ontario leader, is a member of Soldiers of Odin. Alex King, one of the cofounders: https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729 https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729
        _-david-_ 5y ago
        pvg 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theo...
        _-david-_ 5y ago
        Joe Biden literally said he wants immigration to replace whites and it is a good thing that the percentage of whites is shrinking. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4872045/user-clip-joe-biden-admits-great-replacement-real https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4872045/user-clip-joe-biden-a...
        pvg 5y ago
        It's a racist conspiracy theory and a common bad faith white nationalist talking point. It doesn't matter who says it, you should not bring it up as messageboard scorekeeping.
- SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
  this isnt a war against the nazis all modern causes are normal people on both sides with a few crazies because thats how populations work
refurb 5y ago
You mean the CNN “Firey, but mostly peaceful protest” versus someone honking horns and articles published about “the threat of non-violence”?
marak830 5y ago
No. If there are Nazis in your group, and you don't kick them out, you're a fucking Nazi. There is no reason to ever allow Nazis to have any sort of freedom. We literally had a world war about this.
- ymur 5y ago
  [flagged]
- deleted 5y ago
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- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  But Naziism isn't a particular flag or moustache that everyone feels reflexive intellectual disgust towards. It's a seductive ideology harnessing the reflexive disgust of large groups of people. It's not defeated by punching or shooting 'the bad people' but by moral humility and careful consideration of second-order effects at the ballot box. No moral self-examination, disgust of the outgroup, arguing against private citizens' medical and bodily autonomy... does any of that sound familiar? What do you do when you realise you were the Nazi all along?
  - marak830 5y ago
    If they wave a Nazi flag, they are a Nazi. If you don't immediately kick them out, guess what? There is zero excuse for any group to put up with it.
    - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
      They do kick them out. Here's a video of them doing just that: https://www.facebook.com/CornwallBJJ/videos/986522782241975/ https://www.facebook.com/CornwallBJJ/videos/986522782241975/ What would it take for you to have an 'are we the baddies?' moment? Is symbology all that matters in that regard?
      - marak830 5y ago
bawolff 5y ago
Perhaps i missed it, but how many other protests in canada involve defiling grave sites, stealing food from the homeless, etc. I can certainly agree that humans tend to demonize the sins of the other while turning a blind eye to their own side's, but is that really what is happening here? To me it seems like this protest is of a different type.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  The BLM protests ended up in a lot worse. A few murders, a LOT of property damage, and a whole lot more. And yet they were largely supported by the media despite the bad apples.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    In canada? Do you have a source for that? (Not saying they were 100% peaceful,i know there was some unrest in montreal, but my understanding is it was quite minor and nothing like what you are describing)
    - 9935c101ab17a66 5y ago
      No, they don’t. You won’t get a reply. There were BLM protests across Canada, but they were widely considered to be peaceful, and the turnouts were minuscule compared to Those in the us.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
My understanding is that they were very clearly comparing the Canadian government to Nazis, not expressing support for Nazis, but at this point I'd have to see photos to be sure. My own image searches only turn up upside-down Canadian flags, "Fuck Trudeau" slogans, and stuff about "freedom". I'd have to think that if somebody really wanted to undermine them and had such a photo, they'd have posted it. How bad is the reporting? I checked the NYT; https://archive.fo/Jny6X https://archive.fo/Jny6X It's not awful in any obvious way. It does describe the protest as "mostly peaceful". As that phrase is a little notorious, I laughed a little. Since NYT staff spend a lot of time on Twitter, I imagine they know the significance. But hey, if it was peaceful and they said so, then they've done their job ok there. The headline does have some negative connotations: The convoy "descends on Ottowa" (not, I dunno, "protesters gather to demand justice"). And there is one sentence that is incendiary enough that it really needs more context: "Some of them carried Canadian flags upside down; at least one flag had swastikas drawn on it." This invites the reader to draw one conclusion, but the meaning may be something else, as in my first paragraph. So I'd have to see to be sure. But no photos are forthcoming.
- bastardoperator 5y ago
  Wearing a mask and mass genocide are not the same thing, they're not even in the same ballpark. If anything it weakens their entire argument. If you have any understanding of the holocaust you can in no way shape or form compare it to taking precautions during a global pandemic with a mask in public. All I see is a bunch on people that so badly want to be viewed as victims. I don't like wearing a mask either, but if me wearing a mask reduces the spread of a virus that has literally killed millions, I'll wear it, it doesn't hurt me, I'm not going to cry about it or use nazi symbolism to make a case.
  - GauntletWizard 5y ago
    Wearing and mass genocide are not the same thing, but wearing a Star of David is. That's how it started, and we know how it ends.
    - 5y ago
sleepingadmin 5y ago
>What gets me is the way that people will see a picture of a swastika and immediately brand everyone involved as a racist, There's actually pretty large bounty to identify the person who was holding that nazi flag. The assertion is that this was not one of the protesters at all. Afterall the trucker convoy is quite diverse given so many truckers are Indian. The CBC has been caught creating propaganda so many times: https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-down-cbc-s-social-experiment-testing-racism-in-alliston/ https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-dow... My favourite is this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-people-inuit-sandra-inutiq-1.5020210 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-pe... Don't worry, the CBC clears says "racism against white people does not exist" right on that page. CBC is on the record they don't hire white people anymore: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian

DonHopkins 5y ago

Are you trying to say that there are "very fine people on both sides"?

colpabar 5y ago
No, I tried to make my comment thoughtful and hoped someone would want to engage with it so maybe we could learn something.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - braunjohnson 5y ago
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    What if you don't see the swastika? Should you be branded a Nazi? What happens if there is a good cause that you support and a random person comes with a Nazi flag? Should all the people leave? Protesting would effectively never be able to happen.
    - BizarroLand 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - mrhands556 5y ago
        There was a video of them kicking out some dude with a confederate flag. I’ve only seen the Nazi flag in a couple pictures and seemed like it was never in the middle of the rally. Source: https://thepostmillennial.com/canadian-trucker-convoy-confront-masked-man-confederate-flag https://thepostmillennial.com/canadian-trucker-convoy-confro... If you’re trying to discredit a group of people it’s pretty low hanging fruit to send people in with a Nazi flag for great photo ops to show the masses.
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        [flagged]
        mrhands556 5y ago
        I haven’t seen any Nazi flags in the crowd but I haven’t been following it closely.
      - chroem- 5y ago
        [flagged]
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        chroem- 5y ago
        BizarroLand 5y ago
        chroem- 5y ago
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      It's not "random people". The convoy has white supremacists in leadership positions.
      - SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
        bryanlarsen 5y ago
        Justin LaFace, the Ontario leader, is a member of Soldiers of Odin. Alex King, one of the cofounders: https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729 https://twitter.com/VestsCanada/status/1159997274900041729
        _-david-_ 5y ago
        pvg 5y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theo...
        _-david-_ 5y ago
        Joe Biden literally said he wants immigration to replace whites and it is a good thing that the percentage of whites is shrinking. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4872045/user-clip-joe-biden-admits-great-replacement-real https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4872045/user-clip-joe-biden-a...
        pvg 5y ago
        It's a racist conspiracy theory and a common bad faith white nationalist talking point. It doesn't matter who says it, you should not bring it up as messageboard scorekeeping.
SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
this isnt a war against the nazis all modern causes are normal people on both sides with a few crazies because thats how populations work

refurb 5y ago

You mean the CNN “Firey, but mostly peaceful protest” versus someone honking horns and articles published about “the threat of non-violence”?

marak830 5y ago

No. If there are Nazis in your group, and you don't kick them out, you're a fucking Nazi. There is no reason to ever allow Nazis to have any sort of freedom. We literally had a world war about this.

ymur 5y ago
[flagged]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SuoDuanDao 5y ago
But Naziism isn't a particular flag or moustache that everyone feels reflexive intellectual disgust towards. It's a seductive ideology harnessing the reflexive disgust of large groups of people. It's not defeated by punching or shooting 'the bad people' but by moral humility and careful consideration of second-order effects at the ballot box. No moral self-examination, disgust of the outgroup, arguing against private citizens' medical and bodily autonomy... does any of that sound familiar? What do you do when you realise you were the Nazi all along?
- marak830 5y ago
  If they wave a Nazi flag, they are a Nazi. If you don't immediately kick them out, guess what? There is zero excuse for any group to put up with it.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    They do kick them out. Here's a video of them doing just that: https://www.facebook.com/CornwallBJJ/videos/986522782241975/ https://www.facebook.com/CornwallBJJ/videos/986522782241975/ What would it take for you to have an 'are we the baddies?' moment? Is symbology all that matters in that regard?
    - marak830 5y ago

bawolff 5y ago

Perhaps i missed it, but how many other protests in canada involve defiling grave sites, stealing food from the homeless, etc. I can certainly agree that humans tend to demonize the sins of the other while turning a blind eye to their own side's, but is that really what is happening here? To me it seems like this protest is of a different type.

Gigachad 5y ago
The BLM protests ended up in a lot worse. A few murders, a LOT of property damage, and a whole lot more. And yet they were largely supported by the media despite the bad apples.
- bawolff 5y ago
  In canada? Do you have a source for that? (Not saying they were 100% peaceful,i know there was some unrest in montreal, but my understanding is it was quite minor and nothing like what you are describing)
  - 9935c101ab17a66 5y ago
    No, they don’t. You won’t get a reply. There were BLM protests across Canada, but they were widely considered to be peaceful, and the turnouts were minuscule compared to Those in the us.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

My understanding is that they were very clearly comparing the Canadian government to Nazis, not expressing support for Nazis, but at this point I'd have to see photos to be sure. My own image searches only turn up upside-down Canadian flags, "Fuck Trudeau" slogans, and stuff about "freedom". I'd have to think that if somebody really wanted to undermine them and had such a photo, they'd have posted it. How bad is the reporting? I checked the NYT; https://archive.fo/Jny6X https://archive.fo/Jny6X It's not awful in any obvious way. It does describe the protest as "mostly peaceful". As that phrase is a little notorious, I laughed a little. Since NYT staff spend a lot of time on Twitter, I imagine they know the significance. But hey, if it was peaceful and they said so, then they've done their job ok there. The headline does have some negative connotations: The convoy "descends on Ottowa" (not, I dunno, "protesters gather to demand justice"). And there is one sentence that is incendiary enough that it really needs more context: "Some of them carried Canadian flags upside down; at least one flag had swastikas drawn on it." This invites the reader to draw one conclusion, but the meaning may be something else, as in my first paragraph. So I'd have to see to be sure. But no photos are forthcoming.

bastardoperator 5y ago
Wearing a mask and mass genocide are not the same thing, they're not even in the same ballpark. If anything it weakens their entire argument. If you have any understanding of the holocaust you can in no way shape or form compare it to taking precautions during a global pandemic with a mask in public. All I see is a bunch on people that so badly want to be viewed as victims. I don't like wearing a mask either, but if me wearing a mask reduces the spread of a virus that has literally killed millions, I'll wear it, it doesn't hurt me, I'm not going to cry about it or use nazi symbolism to make a case.
- GauntletWizard 5y ago
  Wearing and mass genocide are not the same thing, but wearing a Star of David is. That's how it started, and we know how it ends.
  - 5y ago

sleepingadmin 5y ago

>What gets me is the way that people will see a picture of a swastika and immediately brand everyone involved as a racist, There's actually pretty large bounty to identify the person who was holding that nazi flag. The assertion is that this was not one of the protesters at all. Afterall the trucker convoy is quite diverse given so many truckers are Indian. The CBC has been caught creating propaganda so many times: https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-down-cbc-s-social-experiment-testing-racism-in-alliston/ https://www.mississauga.com/news-story/7081133-opp-shuts-dow... My favourite is this one: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-people-inuit-sandra-inutiq-1.5020210 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/dear-qallunaat-white-pe... Don't worry, the CBC clears says "racism against white people does not exist" right on that page. CBC is on the record they don't hire white people anymore: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cbc-no-caucasian