4 ms·

Small nit-pick, it is disingenuous to write “Gadsen/Confederate” flag when those are two totally separate things. The Gadsen flag for most people is a symbol o

Small nit-pick, it is disingenuous to write “Gadsen/Confederate” flag when those are two totally separate things. The Gadsen flag for most people is a symbol of independence and freedom. Historically it was not associated with slavery, the confederate secession, or the civil war.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'd say that's a major distinction, not a minor nitpick at all.
- enchiridion 5y ago
  Gotta assume best intentions, everyone doesn’t know about everything :)
mikeyouse 5y ago
99% of the Gadsden flags in my area are flying alongside confederate flags — likewise most of them in the protest pics I’ve seen. I know the flag’s history predates the Civil War and that it once upon a time was devoid of the current undertones, but alas, it’s (IMO) irredeemably tainted.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Counter anecdote. I've never seen a Gadsden flag flown by a confederate flag. It's mainly flown by libertarians and others who respect privacy and freedom. Either way, confederate flags aren't normally flown in racist intent. Most people fly them to represent their heritage. The Dixie line, Outlaw country, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see a libertarian from deep Georgia fly both and not be racist in the slight. I think you need to leave your bubble and learn about the people you are trying to demonize.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighting to maintain and expand slavery: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?maxwidth=650&autorotate=false&quality=78&format=webp https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?max... Here's the Alabama secession flag (which they flew because they wanted to keep slavery): https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif In fact, the Gadsden symbol was so ubiquitous as a symbol of maintaning slavery, they had political 'cartoons' of Eagles dismembering snakes in Union papers: https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/550761/cwe_008_03.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/1... It actually made it into the Battle Hymn of the Republic as well, > "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel…Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel." Here's both with a Swastika being flown in Charlottesville before the Unite the Right rally: https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Charlottesville_Unite_the_Right_Rally_35780274914_crop.jpg https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/C... Here's one from Milwaukee from someone protesting the initial lockdowns in 2020: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-d025-41ec-826f-d46b103701d2-IMG_1531_1.JPG?width=1320&height=990&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-... Hope that's helpful background into why many people associate the two flags.
- acheron 5y ago
  That’s utter nonsense and you should stop spreading it.
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    It was literally the secession flag for multiple states during the civil war -- to the point where the most famous battle hymn explicitly frames victory for the Union as crushing the serpent. That may be an inconvenient truth for those who want to avoid its tainted history but it's definitely not nonsense. Don't take my word for it -- feel free to peruse the selection at your local confederate flag dealer: https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/ https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/ https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=product&title=1&excerpt=1&content=1&categories=0&attributes=0&tags=1&sku=0&orderby=date-DESC&ixwps=1 https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=produc... Or show up to your local Klan rally: https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_the_Right-_Rally_35780274914-680x340-c-center@2x.jpg https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_th... If you want to fly a patriotic flag in the US, I'd suggest the American one.
    - yonaguska 5y ago
      It's way more commonly associated as a 2a flag now. I'd never fly a Confederate flag, but I do have a Gadson flag.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

I'd say that's a major distinction, not a minor nitpick at all.

enchiridion 5y ago
Gotta assume best intentions, everyone doesn’t know about everything :)

mikeyouse 5y ago

99% of the Gadsden flags in my area are flying alongside confederate flags — likewise most of them in the protest pics I’ve seen. I know the flag’s history predates the Civil War and that it once upon a time was devoid of the current undertones, but alas, it’s (IMO) irredeemably tainted.

hunterb123 5y ago
Counter anecdote. I've never seen a Gadsden flag flown by a confederate flag. It's mainly flown by libertarians and others who respect privacy and freedom. Either way, confederate flags aren't normally flown in racist intent. Most people fly them to represent their heritage. The Dixie line, Outlaw country, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see a libertarian from deep Georgia fly both and not be racist in the slight. I think you need to leave your bubble and learn about the people you are trying to demonize.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Again, that's your perception of the world which is deluded by your ignorance of others. Also, you ignored the rest of my post to further live in your delusion of a racist enemy to play hero against.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      I (loosely) know plenty of people who fly the confederate flag -- they're all awful shitty racists. Including some of my family members. They all claim it's for heritage reasons as well (which is weird because we're in "the north"). The rest of your post was some anecdotal observation that you've never seen a Gadsden flag next to a confederate one. Here's the Gadsden flown by secessionists in Civil War Georgia fighting to maintain and expand slavery: https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?maxwidth=650&autorotate=false&quality=78&format=webp https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/images/Dontreadonme.jpg?max... Here's the Alabama secession flag (which they flew because they wanted to keep slavery): https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif https://archives.alabama.gov/images/noliflag.gif In fact, the Gadsden symbol was so ubiquitous as a symbol of maintaning slavery, they had political 'cartoons' of Eagles dismembering snakes in Union papers: https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/10822/550761/cwe_008_03.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y https://repository.library.georgetown.edu/bitstream/handle/1... It actually made it into the Battle Hymn of the Republic as well, > "I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel…Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel." Here's both with a Swastika being flown in Charlottesville before the Unite the Right rally: https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Charlottesville_Unite_the_Right_Rally_35780274914_crop.jpg https://www.virginiamercury.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/C... Here's one from Milwaukee from someone protesting the initial lockdowns in 2020: https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-d025-41ec-826f-d46b103701d2-IMG_1531_1.JPG?width=1320&height=990&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/04/19/PMJS/67a2a7dc-... Hope that's helpful background into why many people associate the two flags.
acheron 5y ago
That’s utter nonsense and you should stop spreading it.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  It was literally the secession flag for multiple states during the civil war -- to the point where the most famous battle hymn explicitly frames victory for the Union as crushing the serpent. That may be an inconvenient truth for those who want to avoid its tainted history but it's definitely not nonsense. Don't take my word for it -- feel free to peruse the selection at your local confederate flag dealer: https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/ https://ruffinrebel.com/product-category/gadsden/ https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=product&title=1&excerpt=1&content=1&categories=0&attributes=0&tags=1&sku=0&orderby=date-DESC&ixwps=1 https://rebelnationok.com/page/2/?s=gadsden&post_type=produc... Or show up to your local Klan rally: https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_the_Right-_Rally_35780274914-680x340-c-center@2x.jpg https://contexts.org/files/2017/09/Charlottesville_-Unite_th... If you want to fly a patriotic flag in the US, I'd suggest the American one.
  - yonaguska 5y ago
    It's way more commonly associated as a 2a flag now. I'd never fly a Confederate flag, but I do have a Gadson flag.