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In addition, its a myth that private cars are less energy efficient and are less environmentally friendly per passange mile than mass transit. In fact, there a

by reddog 5y ago

In addition, its a myth that private cars are less energy efficient and are less environmentally friendly per passange mile than mass transit. In fact, there are only two mass transit systems in the US more efficient (in cost, energy and carbon) than driving the average American car. And none are even close to being as efficient as driving a Prius. https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-carbon/ https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-c... https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pd... Also, no one has ever gotten covid, measles, influenza, the common cold or tuberculosis communting alone to work in their car.

GauntletWizard 5y ago
Not to mention that passenger miles are substantially more efficient in cars - You drive (almost, given the amount I get turned around) directly on the shortest route to your destination, while a large percentage of mass transit system rides involve a transfer. Probably not a 10x, probably not even a 2x, but I did the numbers on my commute that was nearly-straight and still found I was going 20% farther to reach my destination by mass transit, because the time-efficient route required going backwards.
caterama 5y ago
I don't think your sources support your claim -- but it's complicated. The first link: https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-carbon/ https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-c... has a graph showing that bus achieves ~150 passenger miles / gallon gasoline equivalent, compared to amtrack, plane, and car all at ~50 +/- 10 miles / gallon gasoline equivalent. Bus is 3 times more efficient than the average car by that measure -- but it really depends what kind of bus loading they assumed. The second link: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pd... is mostly arguing that trains should not be built _in the US_ for environmental/efficiency reasons. One strand of the argument is that building rail is less flexible and takes away ridership from the more efficient bus mode. I think this is the passage you were trying to quote: > Two commuter-rail systems —New Jersey Transit and the Northern Indiana Commuter District—are the only transit systems that use less energy per passenger mile than a Toyota Prius. All other commuter-rail lines, except for the SEPTA system in Philadelphia, use less energy than the average passenger auto. Quite the contradiction to "none are even close to being as efficient as driving a Prius".
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > Bus is 3 times more efficient than the average car by that measure -- but it really depends what kind of bus loading they assumed. Where I live, I've rarely seen a bus with more than 5 people inside.
  - reddog 5y ago
    There is a good DOT map showing average transit bus occupancy by US state that confirms your observation. The lowest average occupancy is in Wyoming at 3.9, the highest is in New Jersey at 15.6. It's a PDF so you need to scroll down page 12 to see the map: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/occupancyfactors/fhwa_pl_19_048.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/occupancyf... So yeah, we can see why mass transit is overwhelminly less efficient than private car when on average a bus with 90 seats is only hauling around 7 people.

by reddog 5y ago

GauntletWizard 5y ago

Not to mention that passenger miles are substantially more efficient in cars - You drive (almost, given the amount I get turned around) directly on the shortest route to your destination, while a large percentage of mass transit system rides involve a transfer. Probably not a 10x, probably not even a 2x, but I did the numbers on my commute that was nearly-straight and still found I was going 20% farther to reach my destination by mass transit, because the time-efficient route required going backwards.

caterama 5y ago

I don't think your sources support your claim -- but it's complicated. The first link: https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-carbon/ https://theicct.org/planes-trains-and-automobiles-counting-c... has a graph showing that bus achieves ~150 passenger miles / gallon gasoline equivalent, compared to amtrack, plane, and car all at ~50 +/- 10 miles / gallon gasoline equivalent. Bus is 3 times more efficient than the average car by that measure -- but it really depends what kind of bus loading they assumed. The second link: https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pdf https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-615.pd... is mostly arguing that trains should not be built _in the US_ for environmental/efficiency reasons. One strand of the argument is that building rail is less flexible and takes away ridership from the more efficient bus mode. I think this is the passage you were trying to quote: > Two commuter-rail systems —New Jersey Transit and the Northern Indiana Commuter District—are the only transit systems that use less energy per passenger mile than a Toyota Prius. All other commuter-rail lines, except for the SEPTA system in Philadelphia, use less energy than the average passenger auto. Quite the contradiction to "none are even close to being as efficient as driving a Prius".

csdvrx 5y ago
> Bus is 3 times more efficient than the average car by that measure -- but it really depends what kind of bus loading they assumed. Where I live, I've rarely seen a bus with more than 5 people inside.
- reddog 5y ago
  There is a good DOT map showing average transit bus occupancy by US state that confirms your observation. The lowest average occupancy is in Wyoming at 3.9, the highest is in New Jersey at 15.6. It's a PDF so you need to scroll down page 12 to see the map: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/occupancyfactors/fhwa_pl_19_048.pdf https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/occupancyf... So yeah, we can see why mass transit is overwhelminly less efficient than private car when on average a bus with 90 seats is only hauling around 7 people.