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> A leveling up system > Getting better tools/equipment as the game progresses These two in particular have been a consistent part of game design for a long t

> A leveling up system > Getting better tools/equipment as the game progresses These two in particular have been a consistent part of game design for a long time because they ease players into increasing gameplay complexity over time. Metroid games are a simple example: when you start off you can run, jump and shoot, and by the end of the game you're using every button on the controller (sometimes multiple at once) and probably have other abilities you can toggle on and off.

autoexec 5y ago
I think it's one of those things that can be good game design, but can also be abused depending on how it's done. In the end, you're still getting that sweet hit of dopamine every time you level or when you get some new cool weapon/item. Games have always exploited that to make their games more fun and addictive. It's nice that the site lists those things for people who are concerned about that or are looking to cut down on your time spent in the skinner box
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  I think categorically calling all of them dark patterns is overselling it though. I really enjoy having tight controls, that probably gives me a hit of dopamine; are good controls now a dark pattern? We get hits of dopamine for things we enjoy, and yet we wouldn't call everything fun in games all dark patterns.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    > I really enjoy having tight controls, that probably gives me a hit of dopamine; are good controls now a dark pattern? There's nothing wrong with a game having good controls, or having a leveling system that exploits our brain's reward system, but knowing which games do it and to what extent they take advantage of it is useful. Just like how good tasting food isn't a bad thing, and my enjoying the taste of apples isn't a dark pattern, but a company that loads up their food with a ton of extra fats, sugars, and salts to make them even more addictive could be considered a dark pattern and a website listing snacks that contain a bunch of added fats, sugars, and salts might be very useful to folks looking for healthy options. I don't see why it should be any different for a site listing "healthy" games. If you aren't worried about the amount of dark patterns in your games at all don't bother going to the website. If you only care about some (loot boxes) but not others (level ups) this site has them all listed out for you so either way you'll know what you're getting.
    - TulliusCicero 5y ago
      > Just like how good tasting food isn't a bad thing, and my enjoying the taste of apples isn't a dark pattern Exactly, and a company having a leveling system in a video game isn't automatically a dark pattern, as this website erroneously asserts. > If you aren't worried about the amount of dark patterns in your games at all don't bother going to the website. Look, this is blatantly disingenuous framing. I've made it clear that I take issue with what they're categorizing as a dark pattern, that it's overbroad, but you're responding as if I'm making a completely different point. It's fine to disagree, but please argue the point I made, not something else. I think it's a good idea to have a website like this, but they should be using more sensible definitions, not something that catches almost all video games.

autoexec 5y ago

I think it's one of those things that can be good game design, but can also be abused depending on how it's done. In the end, you're still getting that sweet hit of dopamine every time you level or when you get some new cool weapon/item. Games have always exploited that to make their games more fun and addictive. It's nice that the site lists those things for people who are concerned about that or are looking to cut down on your time spent in the skinner box

TulliusCicero 5y ago
I think categorically calling all of them dark patterns is overselling it though. I really enjoy having tight controls, that probably gives me a hit of dopamine; are good controls now a dark pattern? We get hits of dopamine for things we enjoy, and yet we wouldn't call everything fun in games all dark patterns.
- autoexec 5y ago
  > I really enjoy having tight controls, that probably gives me a hit of dopamine; are good controls now a dark pattern? There's nothing wrong with a game having good controls, or having a leveling system that exploits our brain's reward system, but knowing which games do it and to what extent they take advantage of it is useful. Just like how good tasting food isn't a bad thing, and my enjoying the taste of apples isn't a dark pattern, but a company that loads up their food with a ton of extra fats, sugars, and salts to make them even more addictive could be considered a dark pattern and a website listing snacks that contain a bunch of added fats, sugars, and salts might be very useful to folks looking for healthy options. I don't see why it should be any different for a site listing "healthy" games. If you aren't worried about the amount of dark patterns in your games at all don't bother going to the website. If you only care about some (loot boxes) but not others (level ups) this site has them all listed out for you so either way you'll know what you're getting.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    > Just like how good tasting food isn't a bad thing, and my enjoying the taste of apples isn't a dark pattern Exactly, and a company having a leveling system in a video game isn't automatically a dark pattern, as this website erroneously asserts. > If you aren't worried about the amount of dark patterns in your games at all don't bother going to the website. Look, this is blatantly disingenuous framing. I've made it clear that I take issue with what they're categorizing as a dark pattern, that it's overbroad, but you're responding as if I'm making a completely different point. It's fine to disagree, but please argue the point I made, not something else. I think it's a good idea to have a website like this, but they should be using more sensible definitions, not something that catches almost all video games.