4 ms·

I'm fairly ignorant of crypto, but wouldn't exchanges hold similar power?

miohtama 5y ago
Peer-to-peer cryptocurrencies do not need intermediates. For governance, one can use smart contracts. This is why things like ConstituionDAO can happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO If it’s good or not is another topic, but it is definitely possible to skip banks and other middlemen.
- sremani 5y ago
  This Crypto bullshit has to stop -- ConstitutionDAO did not give ownership to its stake holders. It was a glorified IoU, a private fiat version of stock/equity into the so called Constitution copy. All the power was held by an LLC and two dudes.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, but this reads like offering shares in a private company. No matter how you knock this up, a corporation or individual ends up with ownership and control in the real world. You need a real-world way to enforce whatever they promise, which is either through civil law via contract or criminal law via fraud. All crypto is is a signature on a document. These documents are not guaranteed to hold up in court, especially when there isn't good case law around whatever you invented to get around existing laws.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  Funny how just hours ago, rosndo was just falsely claiming that "That low-effort shilling hardly exists on HN", and then there you go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30194128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30194128
  - rosndo 5y ago
    That commenter seems a bit confused, yeah. But what is it shilling Don? Cryptocurrencies in general? I doubt they’re shilling the failed ConstitutionDAO? “shills” to me are more like commenters such as rasengan, who is actively advertising his cryptocurrency-as-DNS nonsense whenever given the opportunity.
vmception 5y ago
yes, an exchange would hold similar power if fiat was desired at all, but it wouldn't prevent the crowdfunding from taking place. and because the crowdfund would still occur, the recipient can find an exchange or trade desk that would do the trade for fiat. right now, fiat crowdfunding sites are acting as the platform and exchange while being beholden to a payment processor behind the scenes. in the crypto model, the platform is just a GUI over something that can be interacted with either way, and the exchange is separate and optional. so because there are trillions of dollars in crypto value already and many individuals already own that crypto, they would just collect from them to their own address or smart contract. websites just become GUIs for helping that and are also optional. then if fiat is actually desired for the cause, they can call any random trade desk and do a big order for fiat and have cash in the organization's bank account. for their supporters that don't already own crypto, it would be some friction for them to acquire it, but forget about those people and don't view how it would work from their perspective as the main perspective.
- nxmnxm99 5y ago
  So what you mean is, so long as all of the truckers supporters had crypto, they could transfer that crypto to the truckers. Could governments hypothetically not block those transfers/confiscate the wallets? Again, speaking out of ignorance so forgive the dumb question.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Correct More specifically there are some best practices that would prevent anyone, including a determined state sponsored adversary, from being able to seize or block this. Without the best practices there are some theoretical capabilities. In any case, an organization like go fund me could not bow to corporate policy, public pressure, or a state backchannel, to prevent this. So with or without due process, the people can still form capital and act.

Peer-to-peer cryptocurrencies do not need intermediates. For governance, one can use smart contracts. This is why things like ConstituionDAO can happen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConstitutionDAO If it’s good or not is another topic, but it is definitely possible to skip banks and other middlemen.

sremani 5y ago
This Crypto bullshit has to stop -- ConstitutionDAO did not give ownership to its stake holders. It was a glorified IoU, a private fiat version of stock/equity into the so called Constitution copy. All the power was held by an LLC and two dudes.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but this reads like offering shares in a private company. No matter how you knock this up, a corporation or individual ends up with ownership and control in the real world. You need a real-world way to enforce whatever they promise, which is either through civil law via contract or criminal law via fraud. All crypto is is a signature on a document. These documents are not guaranteed to hold up in court, especially when there isn't good case law around whatever you invented to get around existing laws.
DonHopkins 5y ago
Funny how just hours ago, rosndo was just falsely claiming that "That low-effort shilling hardly exists on HN", and then there you go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30194128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30194128
- rosndo 5y ago
  That commenter seems a bit confused, yeah. But what is it shilling Don? Cryptocurrencies in general? I doubt they’re shilling the failed ConstitutionDAO? “shills” to me are more like commenters such as rasengan, who is actively advertising his cryptocurrency-as-DNS nonsense whenever given the opportunity.

vmception 5y ago

yes, an exchange would hold similar power if fiat was desired at all, but it wouldn't prevent the crowdfunding from taking place. and because the crowdfund would still occur, the recipient can find an exchange or trade desk that would do the trade for fiat. right now, fiat crowdfunding sites are acting as the platform and exchange while being beholden to a payment processor behind the scenes. in the crypto model, the platform is just a GUI over something that can be interacted with either way, and the exchange is separate and optional. so because there are trillions of dollars in crypto value already and many individuals already own that crypto, they would just collect from them to their own address or smart contract. websites just become GUIs for helping that and are also optional. then if fiat is actually desired for the cause, they can call any random trade desk and do a big order for fiat and have cash in the organization's bank account. for their supporters that don't already own crypto, it would be some friction for them to acquire it, but forget about those people and don't view how it would work from their perspective as the main perspective.

nxmnxm99 5y ago
So what you mean is, so long as all of the truckers supporters had crypto, they could transfer that crypto to the truckers. Could governments hypothetically not block those transfers/confiscate the wallets? Again, speaking out of ignorance so forgive the dumb question.
- vmception 5y ago
  Correct More specifically there are some best practices that would prevent anyone, including a determined state sponsored adversary, from being able to seize or block this. Without the best practices there are some theoretical capabilities. In any case, an organization like go fund me could not bow to corporate policy, public pressure, or a state backchannel, to prevent this. So with or without due process, the people can still form capital and act.