5 ms·

As an American citizen that left for Europe 10 years ago, I honestly don't see why an American citizenship is so desirable. Yes you can make a lot of money, but

As an American citizen that left for Europe 10 years ago, I honestly don't see why an American citizenship is so desirable. Yes you can make a lot of money, but you don't need a citizenship for that. I tell people that ask me about moving over they should "get in and get out". Make your money then move to somewhere with a functional society to raise a family. You might take a pay cut but your kids won't get shot at school either.

ForHackernews 5y ago
It's too easy to dismiss something when you've never lacked for it. "Why I Became an American" by Enes Kanter Freedom - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-kanter-freedom-speaks/620940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-k...
- alangibson 5y ago
  Apples and oranges. I'd like to give automatic citizenship to anyone persecuted in their home country, but most green card applicants aren't refugees.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kkwteh 5y ago
This is essentially what I did, and I feel like it worked out really well for me. Besides the benefits you mentioned, I feel like my money goes a lot further over here too in terms of healthcare, education, and housing.
- alangibson 5y ago
  If you adjust for quality, many things in Europe are similar in cost to the US. Rents are arguably cheaper. A 2 bedroom apartment in Wien is like 1200 USD vs God knows how much in SF. And Wien is officially the world's most livable city.
hkthrowaway88 5y ago
As an American citizen living in Hong Kong I see more and more every day why an American citizenship is so desirable.
- alangibson 5y ago
  That's a bit of a special circumstance, no? You're on an island that is actively being absorbed by an ideologically opposed superpower. There's a lot of daylight between people in HK and the vast majority who's motivation is primarily greater earning potential. Also, there's nothing special about the US in this case. Germany would probably be an easier go.
  - hkthrowaway88 5y ago
    I don't know that much about German immigration, but many European countries are harder to get residence in than the US. Also, most people in HK speak at least some English but hardly anybody speaks German. I doubt it would be much of an "easier go" except for people working in high paid jobs in desirable fields (who would probably go to the US or Canada). It's not that special of a case. For as much as people in the US complain about their government, most of the world is much worse.
    - lmm 5y ago
      The US is definitely a wealthy and successful country, comfortably above the global average. At the same time I wouldn't say that US citizenship stands out as particularly better than other developed countries (e.g. most of the EU).
      - kyawzazaw 5y ago
        Most of the EU language barriers and assimilation is hard.
manquer 5y ago
The reason people on a work visa desire citizenship or permanent residency status is because their lack of ability to negotiate with their employer, you get fired without another sponsor you have to leave in 10 days or so etc. This is ripe for abuse, they can get paid less than their others in the same jobs, or be exploited by the body shops / mills etc, they move jobs less frequently than someone who would purely have based on career or financial choices, all of which have material impact in the money they can make.[1] Also it is not unusual for such people to have kids who because they usually born in America are American citizens and may not have citizenship in the country of origin etc, so the risk of stranding the family is also a factor. Finally English speaking countries generally get more immigrants as language barrier is major factor same reason why U.K. is more desired than other countries in Europe, or Australia/New Zealand are also typically attractive destinations. For all the negative press about U.S, it is still have one of the largest immigration programs of anywhere in the world and also the jobs that can be had, so it is generally simply easier to get to U.S. and live here than anywhere else. [1] I wouldn't use inflammatory terms like slavery, however traditionally U.S. has been "built on the backs" of immigrants, First actual slaves and indentured labor(most Europeans up to the revolution came this way ), then poor immigrants. As long as it was better than back home people would keep coming, and as long it was even slightly cheaper than what it would cost locally or jobs citizens won't prefer to do, it will be profitable.
bialpio 5y ago
The worry that you may get kicked out of work and will be forced to leave the country in a matter of weeks is real. Citizenship makes it go away. Besides, there's a whole matter of "no taxation without representation".
LaLaLand122 5y ago
To each their own. But for lots of us, USA is like the last place in the world we would like to move to. You just don't hear our epic stories of how we thought for a second about it, decided strongly against, and never looked back. Not much of a story to tell.

ForHackernews 5y ago

It's too easy to dismiss something when you've never lacked for it. "Why I Became an American" by Enes Kanter Freedom - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-kanter-freedom-speaks/620940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-k...

alangibson 5y ago
Apples and oranges. I'd like to give automatic citizenship to anyone persecuted in their home country, but most green card applicants aren't refugees.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kkwteh 5y ago

This is essentially what I did, and I feel like it worked out really well for me. Besides the benefits you mentioned, I feel like my money goes a lot further over here too in terms of healthcare, education, and housing.

alangibson 5y ago
If you adjust for quality, many things in Europe are similar in cost to the US. Rents are arguably cheaper. A 2 bedroom apartment in Wien is like 1200 USD vs God knows how much in SF. And Wien is officially the world's most livable city.

hkthrowaway88 5y ago

As an American citizen living in Hong Kong I see more and more every day why an American citizenship is so desirable.

alangibson 5y ago
That's a bit of a special circumstance, no? You're on an island that is actively being absorbed by an ideologically opposed superpower. There's a lot of daylight between people in HK and the vast majority who's motivation is primarily greater earning potential. Also, there's nothing special about the US in this case. Germany would probably be an easier go.
- hkthrowaway88 5y ago
  I don't know that much about German immigration, but many European countries are harder to get residence in than the US. Also, most people in HK speak at least some English but hardly anybody speaks German. I doubt it would be much of an "easier go" except for people working in high paid jobs in desirable fields (who would probably go to the US or Canada). It's not that special of a case. For as much as people in the US complain about their government, most of the world is much worse.
  - lmm 5y ago
    The US is definitely a wealthy and successful country, comfortably above the global average. At the same time I wouldn't say that US citizenship stands out as particularly better than other developed countries (e.g. most of the EU).
    - kyawzazaw 5y ago
      Most of the EU language barriers and assimilation is hard.

manquer 5y ago

The reason people on a work visa desire citizenship or permanent residency status is because their lack of ability to negotiate with their employer, you get fired without another sponsor you have to leave in 10 days or so etc. This is ripe for abuse, they can get paid less than their others in the same jobs, or be exploited by the body shops / mills etc, they move jobs less frequently than someone who would purely have based on career or financial choices, all of which have material impact in the money they can make.[1] Also it is not unusual for such people to have kids who because they usually born in America are American citizens and may not have citizenship in the country of origin etc, so the risk of stranding the family is also a factor. Finally English speaking countries generally get more immigrants as language barrier is major factor same reason why U.K. is more desired than other countries in Europe, or Australia/New Zealand are also typically attractive destinations. For all the negative press about U.S, it is still have one of the largest immigration programs of anywhere in the world and also the jobs that can be had, so it is generally simply easier to get to U.S. and live here than anywhere else. [1] I wouldn't use inflammatory terms like slavery, however traditionally U.S. has been "built on the backs" of immigrants, First actual slaves and indentured labor(most Europeans up to the revolution came this way ), then poor immigrants. As long as it was better than back home people would keep coming, and as long it was even slightly cheaper than what it would cost locally or jobs citizens won't prefer to do, it will be profitable.

bialpio 5y ago

The worry that you may get kicked out of work and will be forced to leave the country in a matter of weeks is real. Citizenship makes it go away. Besides, there's a whole matter of "no taxation without representation".

LaLaLand122 5y ago

To each their own. But for lots of us, USA is like the last place in the world we would like to move to. You just don't hear our epic stories of how we thought for a second about it, decided strongly against, and never looked back. Not much of a story to tell.