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> When work is squeezed into four days, the human interactions that fill the interstitial time can suffer. “There wasn’t time for banter,” said one employee who

> When work is squeezed into four days, the human interactions that fill the interstitial time can suffer. “There wasn’t time for banter,” said one employee whose startup made the switch. Another said that he no longer had “time to daydream at work.” So? I for one am fine with this, thank you. If I want to socialise, I can have plenty with actual friends and family.

cogman10 5y ago
Yup, this sounds like the same people that have to go into the office for "culture" or some BS.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  In my junior days I learned a lot, both technical and socially, from that "culture BS" from the office. I don't like being just a random avatar in a chat app that takes Jira tickets on input and pushes git commits as an output. The new hires that joined in the post Covid WFH days have it really rough in our org. They just fade into the background of anonymity. I guess it's fine if you already got a huge and reliable network of friends and contacts in the industry and your only goal is cashing bigger checks to retire early, which is also fine, everyone has different ages, lifestyles, goals in life and expectations from their workplace.
  - eecc 5y ago
    Yeah, but refining tickets, programming and getting good code review feedback from a competent and professional senior engineer are what you need to acquire experience and competence. Over time this means a better salary, a faster career, and more significant lifetime achievements. Water-cooler BS, pandering to the local hierarchy is just investing in your regrets-folder. Sociality and networking are more effectively cultivated and owned long-term on neutral-ground: user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Hear me
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      >Water-cooler BS, pandering to the local hierarchy is just investing in your regrets. That is not what I had in mind as a positive experience. Working is such an environment is bad, in office or not, but in many countries this is the norm unfortunately (traditional big auto, Germany) >Sociality and networking are more effectively cultivated and owned long-term on neutral-ground: user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Those groups of randos you meet a couple of times a month may be fun to hang out with for bouldering and a beer, but those relationships stay pretty superficial and may not be as reliable and ready to vouch for you as a colleague who you meet 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and knows you very well, and when he jumps ship can vouch for you if you wish to join him, instead of going through the interview grinder. This is of course no rule and such experiences are of course anecdotal and can vary wildly depending on your luck or chance.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      > user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Does anyone really make friendships there that expand beyond that environment? I go to the gym, I know people there by name, make friendly chit-chat, I know what they do and big events in their lives, but that has never expanded beyond the time that we are there. I have never been asked to meet up somewhere else, grab dinner, come over and watch a game, etc. nor I have I asked that of anyone. It would seem like an imposition to me; people have their lives and just because you know someone in one context does not mean you are welcome or would be interested in the rest of it. The only friends I have ever made are people I spend many hours of time with every day. Roommates, classmates, and in a few cases, colleagues at work. That long duration, close-proximity shared time seems to be an essential ingredient to forming friendships. I think that is also a reason that once people are out of school they find it much harder to develop new friendships -- life gets too compartmentalized and time-fractured.
      - eecc 5y ago
        Well the question really is do you make time to develop relations from these contexts? Anecdotal: I'm a contractor and I can't think of a lasting work-derived friendship that wasn't reinforced via these other networks. Work is work, every time I leave I collect a couple more LinkedIn contacts but most remain figurines on a screen. Those few I bump into IRL develop.
- malermeister 5y ago
  To me, both of those sound like people that can't make friends unless the other party is forced to spend time with them through their employer.
metalliqaz 5y ago
Socializing with work colleagues is important too; it builds relationships. There's a certain 'awareness' about what is going on in an organization that you get from shooting the shit. Also I don't have any actual friends.
agumonkey 5y ago
I like most of my colleagues but 90% of work produced chit chat is petty superficial, totally imaginary, if not utterly toxic. I wished and tried to have better convos but it's a race to the bottom. The only value of these meetings is to vent. Whoever doesn't work enough, is stupid, what your direct superior forced you to. I even tried to offer improvements, but it fell flat (no social status, no ears). Really a waste of existence, I'd rather talk to a betta fish.

cogman10 5y ago

Yup, this sounds like the same people that have to go into the office for "culture" or some BS.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
In my junior days I learned a lot, both technical and socially, from that "culture BS" from the office. I don't like being just a random avatar in a chat app that takes Jira tickets on input and pushes git commits as an output. The new hires that joined in the post Covid WFH days have it really rough in our org. They just fade into the background of anonymity. I guess it's fine if you already got a huge and reliable network of friends and contacts in the industry and your only goal is cashing bigger checks to retire early, which is also fine, everyone has different ages, lifestyles, goals in life and expectations from their workplace.
- eecc 5y ago
  Yeah, but refining tickets, programming and getting good code review feedback from a competent and professional senior engineer are what you need to acquire experience and competence. Over time this means a better salary, a faster career, and more significant lifetime achievements. Water-cooler BS, pandering to the local hierarchy is just investing in your regrets-folder. Sociality and networking are more effectively cultivated and owned long-term on neutral-ground: user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Hear me
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    >Water-cooler BS, pandering to the local hierarchy is just investing in your regrets. That is not what I had in mind as a positive experience. Working is such an environment is bad, in office or not, but in many countries this is the norm unfortunately (traditional big auto, Germany) >Sociality and networking are more effectively cultivated and owned long-term on neutral-ground: user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Those groups of randos you meet a couple of times a month may be fun to hang out with for bouldering and a beer, but those relationships stay pretty superficial and may not be as reliable and ready to vouch for you as a colleague who you meet 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and knows you very well, and when he jumps ship can vouch for you if you wish to join him, instead of going through the interview grinder. This is of course no rule and such experiences are of course anecdotal and can vary wildly depending on your luck or chance.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    > user-groups, gym, local-whatever-chapter, Meetup. Does anyone really make friendships there that expand beyond that environment? I go to the gym, I know people there by name, make friendly chit-chat, I know what they do and big events in their lives, but that has never expanded beyond the time that we are there. I have never been asked to meet up somewhere else, grab dinner, come over and watch a game, etc. nor I have I asked that of anyone. It would seem like an imposition to me; people have their lives and just because you know someone in one context does not mean you are welcome or would be interested in the rest of it. The only friends I have ever made are people I spend many hours of time with every day. Roommates, classmates, and in a few cases, colleagues at work. That long duration, close-proximity shared time seems to be an essential ingredient to forming friendships. I think that is also a reason that once people are out of school they find it much harder to develop new friendships -- life gets too compartmentalized and time-fractured.
    - eecc 5y ago
      Well the question really is do you make time to develop relations from these contexts? Anecdotal: I'm a contractor and I can't think of a lasting work-derived friendship that wasn't reinforced via these other networks. Work is work, every time I leave I collect a couple more LinkedIn contacts but most remain figurines on a screen. Those few I bump into IRL develop.
malermeister 5y ago
To me, both of those sound like people that can't make friends unless the other party is forced to spend time with them through their employer.

metalliqaz 5y ago

Socializing with work colleagues is important too; it builds relationships. There's a certain 'awareness' about what is going on in an organization that you get from shooting the shit. Also I don't have any actual friends.

agumonkey 5y ago

I like most of my colleagues but 90% of work produced chit chat is petty superficial, totally imaginary, if not utterly toxic. I wished and tried to have better convos but it's a race to the bottom. The only value of these meetings is to vent. Whoever doesn't work enough, is stupid, what your direct superior forced you to. I even tried to offer improvements, but it fell flat (no social status, no ears). Really a waste of existence, I'd rather talk to a betta fish.