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People who are not vaccinate are definitely behaving in a deeply antisocial way and enforcing vaccines is very much a justified policy in my eyes, even if “only

by arrrg 5y ago

People who are not vaccinate are definitely behaving in a deeply antisocial way and enforcing vaccines is very much a justified policy in my eyes, even if “only” to smooth over the transition from pandemic to endemic. To my eyes vaccine mandates are not, in general, human rights violations. They just are not.

nsxwolf 5y ago
Tie them down and forcibly inject them then. Have some courage. Quit pussy footing around with economic threats and shaming.
- spankalee 5y ago
  Why?
  - nsxwolf 5y ago
    Because morally it's the same thing, and it would get done faster and more effectively.
    - mr_toad 5y ago
      Depends whether you are more concerned about vaccination rates, or with punishing people for being antisocial.
yetanotherath 5y ago
thrown939181 5y ago
spookthesunset 5y ago
> To my eyes vaccine mandates are not, in general, human rights violations. They just are not. Are they really though? If vaccines work so damn great why do I still need to wear a mask in a place where everybody is vaccinated? And why did Ontario shut down most of the places that required proof of vaccine during this omicron wave? Shouldn't those places be exempt from shutdowns? If proof of vaccine still requires masking and shutdowns... maybe it isn't a really an effective policy?
- MagnumOpus 5y ago
  If stop signs and traffic lights work so dann well why am I being forced to wear a seat belt? If I require a seatbelt even after taking a drivers licence exam, maybe following traffic rules isn’t really an effective policy? One would think that on this forum of all places, people would understand the concept of defence-in-depth. Furrfu…
  - spookthesunset 5y ago
    Vaccines are both the seat belt and the airbags. Masks? Those aren’t even close. They are more like rain dances or amulets. Besides why does the government get to decide if a vaccinated person has to wear a mask? Makes no sense. You can add as many layers of defense as you want. Don’t force me to. I’m boosted. I could care less about Covid. If I still have to wear a mask post shot, why the hell did I even bother?
    - Spivak 5y ago
      > Masks? Those aren’t even close. They're to reduce transmission to others. You can call them not good enough but it's a respiratory disease, it's what we've got. The alternative is lockdowns. > Besides why does the government get to decide if a vaccinated person has to wear a mask? Why do they get to decide if an unvaccinated person has to wear a mask? You're simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and so masks are pointless but also that vaccines are ineffective. Which is it? > Don’t force me to. I’m boosted. I could care less about Covid. It's not about you. If the only risk was only to yourself then nobody would care. > If I still have to wear a mask post shot, why the hell did I even bother? Because if you get covid you'll have a mild flu instead of being hospitalized or die? You can say it's low chance but 3,000 corpses today I guess were unlucky.
      - spookthesunset 5y ago
        I would have gotten mild Covid. I have no real need to get the vaccine at all. Only reason I got the vaccine was I had no reason not to. I really don’t care about Covid at all. It isn’t a risk I focus on. Never had been. I’m way more concerned about what this hysteria has done to society and our communities. Others can get a vaccine too if it truly helps them or they just want piece of mind. We all have the choice. Transmission no longer matters. It isn’t a problem each individual needs to worry about. It’s not ethical or moral to keep pushing this as the only concern society can focus on. We need to move on. And you can use scare words like “3000 corpses a day” but that is propaganda and fearmongering. The more scary the wording, the less the words mean to me. Way more than 3000 people die a day. And people die of many things all the time. Death is one of the only things that will happen to us 100%. Life is way to short to piss away on this. You are free to continue hunkering down in fear. But kindly stop forcing others to cater to your fear. It is quite selfish to ask that, especially given you can get a freely available, highly effective vaccine. Get your vaccine and move on. Covid ends for you when you stop being afraid of it. It’s actually that simple.
rastignack 5y ago
> People who are not vaccinate are definitely behaving in a deeply antisocial way Are chain smokers antisocial ? What about over eating obese ? I hate risk-adverse fearful societies.
- paulryanrogers 5y ago
  Second-hand smoke strikes me as antisocial if produced in an unavoidable setting. Obesity ... seems like an entirely personal matter, except perhaps in children where they might be considered victims. Highly infectious viruses several times more harmful than the usual ones are indeed turning the world upside down. I imagine with time most societies will come to accept such things after they've become endemic for a while.
  - rastignack 5y ago
    > Obesity ... seems like an entirely personal matter Just like vaccination for Covid is personal. Remember that the vaccine does not prevent transmission of omicron. And that if the vaccine works, if an unvaccinated person transmits the virus to a vaccinated one, there should be no risk, right ? Also, obese and overweight people account for 50% of hospitalizations in ICU for Covid in France.
bavell 5y ago
I disagree with every one of your statements. > To my eyes vaccine mandates are not, in general, human rights violations. They just are not. We're talking specifically about the Covid vaccine mandates, not mandates in general. I think there's certainly a serious debate to be had on whether these morally questionable Covid policies are human rights violations.

by arrrg 5y ago

nsxwolf 5y ago

Tie them down and forcibly inject them then. Have some courage. Quit pussy footing around with economic threats and shaming.

spankalee 5y ago
Why?
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  Because morally it's the same thing, and it would get done faster and more effectively.
  - mr_toad 5y ago
    Depends whether you are more concerned about vaccination rates, or with punishing people for being antisocial.

yetanotherath 5y ago

thrown939181 5y ago

spookthesunset 5y ago

> To my eyes vaccine mandates are not, in general, human rights violations. They just are not. Are they really though? If vaccines work so damn great why do I still need to wear a mask in a place where everybody is vaccinated? And why did Ontario shut down most of the places that required proof of vaccine during this omicron wave? Shouldn't those places be exempt from shutdowns? If proof of vaccine still requires masking and shutdowns... maybe it isn't a really an effective policy?

MagnumOpus 5y ago
If stop signs and traffic lights work so dann well why am I being forced to wear a seat belt? If I require a seatbelt even after taking a drivers licence exam, maybe following traffic rules isn’t really an effective policy? One would think that on this forum of all places, people would understand the concept of defence-in-depth. Furrfu…
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  Vaccines are both the seat belt and the airbags. Masks? Those aren’t even close. They are more like rain dances or amulets. Besides why does the government get to decide if a vaccinated person has to wear a mask? Makes no sense. You can add as many layers of defense as you want. Don’t force me to. I’m boosted. I could care less about Covid. If I still have to wear a mask post shot, why the hell did I even bother?
  - Spivak 5y ago
    > Masks? Those aren’t even close. They're to reduce transmission to others. You can call them not good enough but it's a respiratory disease, it's what we've got. The alternative is lockdowns. > Besides why does the government get to decide if a vaccinated person has to wear a mask? Why do they get to decide if an unvaccinated person has to wear a mask? You're simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and so masks are pointless but also that vaccines are ineffective. Which is it? > Don’t force me to. I’m boosted. I could care less about Covid. It's not about you. If the only risk was only to yourself then nobody would care. > If I still have to wear a mask post shot, why the hell did I even bother? Because if you get covid you'll have a mild flu instead of being hospitalized or die? You can say it's low chance but 3,000 corpses today I guess were unlucky.
    - spookthesunset 5y ago
      I would have gotten mild Covid. I have no real need to get the vaccine at all. Only reason I got the vaccine was I had no reason not to. I really don’t care about Covid at all. It isn’t a risk I focus on. Never had been. I’m way more concerned about what this hysteria has done to society and our communities. Others can get a vaccine too if it truly helps them or they just want piece of mind. We all have the choice. Transmission no longer matters. It isn’t a problem each individual needs to worry about. It’s not ethical or moral to keep pushing this as the only concern society can focus on. We need to move on. And you can use scare words like “3000 corpses a day” but that is propaganda and fearmongering. The more scary the wording, the less the words mean to me. Way more than 3000 people die a day. And people die of many things all the time. Death is one of the only things that will happen to us 100%. Life is way to short to piss away on this. You are free to continue hunkering down in fear. But kindly stop forcing others to cater to your fear. It is quite selfish to ask that, especially given you can get a freely available, highly effective vaccine. Get your vaccine and move on. Covid ends for you when you stop being afraid of it. It’s actually that simple.

rastignack 5y ago

> People who are not vaccinate are definitely behaving in a deeply antisocial way Are chain smokers antisocial ? What about over eating obese ? I hate risk-adverse fearful societies.

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Second-hand smoke strikes me as antisocial if produced in an unavoidable setting. Obesity ... seems like an entirely personal matter, except perhaps in children where they might be considered victims. Highly infectious viruses several times more harmful than the usual ones are indeed turning the world upside down. I imagine with time most societies will come to accept such things after they've become endemic for a while.
- rastignack 5y ago
  > Obesity ... seems like an entirely personal matter Just like vaccination for Covid is personal. Remember that the vaccine does not prevent transmission of omicron. And that if the vaccine works, if an unvaccinated person transmits the virus to a vaccinated one, there should be no risk, right ? Also, obese and overweight people account for 50% of hospitalizations in ICU for Covid in France.

bavell 5y ago

I disagree with every one of your statements. > To my eyes vaccine mandates are not, in general, human rights violations. They just are not. We're talking specifically about the Covid vaccine mandates, not mandates in general. I think there's certainly a serious debate to be had on whether these morally questionable Covid policies are human rights violations.