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Android is in fact the dominant platform by number of users, and has cool stuff like cloud gaming apps that iOS does not. There are also other aspects of the iP

Android is in fact the dominant platform by number of users, and has cool stuff like cloud gaming apps that iOS does not. There are also other aspects of the iPhone that many people prefer over Android phones, e.g. hardware features and quality. The point about sandboxing is relevant because many people conflate sandboxing protections with the protections offered by App Review, and thus are afraid that non-App Store apps will be able to install viruses or brick their devices - which isn't the case. Lastly, the automated malware screening that’s part of the App Review process can be offered separately, thus the risk of "catching malware” from non-App Store apps will be the same as with App Store apps.

teknopaul 5y ago
This is Hacker news, everyone reading this should be able to hack up something of personal use on their phone.
- zepto 5y ago
  And they can. Nothing prevents that. If you think it does, you’ve been lied to.
  - tragictrash 5y ago
    Not true. Apple places a 7 day limit on developer mode side loaded apps when using a free account. Sorry to link to Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question_is_there_no_way_to_get_around_the_7day/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question...
    - mullingitover 5y ago
      It'd be pretty trivial to throw together some automation that reinstalls your sideloaded apps nightly.
      - tragictrash 5y ago
        It's not. You obviously never really developed anything using both xcode, the automated xcode build tooling, or an iPhone before.
        mullingitover 5y ago
        I operated a whole bespoke enterprise build farm for iOS that did hundreds of headless xcode builds per day, plus I wired up automated app re-signing with a signing identity repository. It's a pain because Apple isn't super helpful if you're not on the straight and narrow path, but it's not rocket surgery. Just hooking up some actions to automate a build and install when 'phone plugged in' event is detected isn't that hard.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        Apple has been gradually improving its toolchain. Finally their Buddybuild acquisition is yielding results.
      - sgjohnson 5y ago
        The device has to be unlocked, and non-Xcode builds require connecting the device to the computer using a cable. So it’s not as trivial as it seems.
        mullingitover 5y ago
        I actually forgot that Xcode could install wirelessly! To me, unlocking the device and connecting it to the computer (which could be a mac mini next to my bed) is completely trivial. It really doesn't get much easier.
        tragictrash 5y ago
        I love the logical gymnastics you iphone fanboys go through to make your views fit the world we live in.
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      And there’s also a 3 app maximum Although you can always pay Apple $99/year to get around it!
      - ok_dad 5y ago
        Plus the cost of an Apple computer to develop it on.
        zepto 5y ago
        So what? There are plenty of other options if you want to develop software for you own use.
        ok_dad 5y ago
        Not for on my iPhone! I can't compile on Linux and publish software onto an iPhone without major trickery.
        zepto 5y ago
        You have to be the least informed hacker in the world if you bought an thinking you could do that. There are plenty of alternatives to the iPhone if you want to compile on Linux.
        dv35z 5y ago
        I have the vision of hanging at the coffee shop, jamming to headphones, pop open the iPad, open the iCloud synced IntelliJ project I was working on my MacBook Pro in the morning. To those who would say, but that's not what an iPad is for - consider this thought: The iPad is a pretty good expression device. You can draw with the pencil in Good Notes. You can paint with your fingers in Procreate. You can make music with Garage Band. With the iPad keyboard, and Obsidian.app, it's a serious writing tool. So with all of these ways to express my passion, what I'd love to do is use the iPad to express my passion to code. Using my kindergarten brain, It looks like a computer that a person could use to code. Apple seems to be investing in iPad software development capabilities - Swift Playground app. This is exciting - perhaps it will be the "iMovie" of Xcode... An aside: When someone finally comes up with an eInk laptop, we developers in Austin can chill at patio bars and enjoy the sun.
    - zepto 5y ago
      You can always buy a developer account.
threeseed 5y ago
Cloud gaming exists on iOS as well. And is just as insignificant there as it is on other platforms. And you are being disingenuous by deliberately ignoring the manual checks that Apple's review team does to prevent malicious apps from being disseminated. I work for a bank and my Mac laptop has 6 apps pre-installed designed purely to prevent malware/viruses. The same will unquestionably be needed on iOS for those using it for sensitive tasks.
- keleftheriou 5y ago
  Macs offer the option to run apps without any sandboxing whatsoever – meaning an app can run totally unrestricted and read, modify, or delete any file of any other app, including most system files. We’re not asking for that on iOS. So there’s no reason to think you’ll ever need "6 apps pre-installed designed purely to prevent malware/viruses” on your phone.
  - zepto 5y ago
    You seem to be engaging in magical thinking by imagining that a sandbox can prevent all malware. No serious security researcher would support this claim.
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      iOS provides many more security protections beyond sandboxing.
      - zepto 5y ago
        So what? It’s clearly not enough on its own.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        When has it been not clearly enough?
scarface74 5y ago
Don’t you think that dominance worldwide might be attributed to the fact that you can get an Android phone for $50?
- tragictrash 5y ago
  What does this change?
  - scarface74 5y ago
    It’s not dominant because of any inherent trait of Android besides it’s price.
    - tragictrash 5y ago
      I don't think you understand how this works. It's dominant. Just because you think iphone is better doesn't mean it's not dominant. Classic Tesla fanboy logic
      - scarface74 5y ago
        I’m saying just the opposite. If the argument is that people prefer Android over iPhones for reasons like “openness” [sic] that’s clearly not the case. Where users can afford iPhones either because they have the income or where carriers have easy payment plans, they buy IPhones - like in the US or the more affluent even in China.
        zepto 5y ago
        People prefer a phone with a store curated by Apple.
- FpUser 5y ago
  The fact that one does not have to sell own kidney to own smartphone definitely helps I think. Does it somehow make non Apple smartphones less of a product?
zepto 5y ago
> afraid that non-App Store apps will be able to install viruses or brick their devices - which isn't the case. It absolutely is the case.
- flutas 5y ago
  > It absolutely is the case. If that can happen, then that is a security flaw of the device and should be fixed, no? I mean, reading a text could install a virus on iPhones last year, yet I didn't see people screaming that all texts should have to go through Apple to make sure they aren't a virus.
  - smnrchrds 5y ago
    For heaven's sake, don't give Apple any more ideas!
  - zepto 5y ago
    > If that can happen, then that is a security flaw of the device and should be fixed, no? Yes. It should be fixed. Guess what? Nobody has ever in human history figured out how to make software that is free of security flaws. That’s why these things are only part of the solution. > I mean, reading a text could install a virus on iPhones last year, yet I didn't see people screaming that all texts should have to go through Apple to make sure they aren't a virus If you think application software is like a text message then you don’t know enough to comment on this issue.
    - flutas 5y ago
      > If you think application software is like a text message then you don’t know enough to comment on this issue. If you think that was an example of what I think software is like, then you probably shouldn't comment on it either. I'm just commenting on the fact that, like you said, there's always going to be security issues and using them as the scapegoat for "why" this can't happen is a bad argument. What's the difference between running an app ad-hoc right now (via XCode) vs allowing a user to download and install any app they want. The answer is, there isn't any except for artificial limitations put in place by apple. Anything an app that is installed could do would be the same between the store, ad-hoc builds, or installed from a download. The security is in the platform, not the App Store. How many times have we seen something slip through Apple's review process? Fortnite got a full CC flow UI through, many apps back in the day would slip WiFi tethering into their app and get through. All it would take is a simple API call with a boolean to enable or disable the "security issue." You could always do checks to see what API calls they are using and use that as a metric of "security" but that can also be done device-side. "Hey, this app is using a sketchy API that shouldn't be public, we're going to block it."
gpm 5y ago
And the hardware quality and features aren't things that android can just copy, because Apple has numerous government enforced monopolies on their technology called patents. This isn't a free market.

teknopaul 5y ago

This is Hacker news, everyone reading this should be able to hack up something of personal use on their phone.

zepto 5y ago
And they can. Nothing prevents that. If you think it does, you’ve been lied to.
- tragictrash 5y ago
  Not true. Apple places a 7 day limit on developer mode side loaded apps when using a free account. Sorry to link to Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question_is_there_no_way_to_get_around_the_7day/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sideloaded/comments/8ht5uy/question...
  - mullingitover 5y ago
    It'd be pretty trivial to throw together some automation that reinstalls your sideloaded apps nightly.
    - tragictrash 5y ago
      It's not. You obviously never really developed anything using both xcode, the automated xcode build tooling, or an iPhone before.
      - mullingitover 5y ago
        I operated a whole bespoke enterprise build farm for iOS that did hundreds of headless xcode builds per day, plus I wired up automated app re-signing with a signing identity repository. It's a pain because Apple isn't super helpful if you're not on the straight and narrow path, but it's not rocket surgery. Just hooking up some actions to automate a build and install when 'phone plugged in' event is detected isn't that hard.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        Apple has been gradually improving its toolchain. Finally their Buddybuild acquisition is yielding results.
    - sgjohnson 5y ago
      The device has to be unlocked, and non-Xcode builds require connecting the device to the computer using a cable. So it’s not as trivial as it seems.
      - mullingitover 5y ago
        I actually forgot that Xcode could install wirelessly! To me, unlocking the device and connecting it to the computer (which could be a mac mini next to my bed) is completely trivial. It really doesn't get much easier.
        tragictrash 5y ago
        I love the logical gymnastics you iphone fanboys go through to make your views fit the world we live in.
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    And there’s also a 3 app maximum Although you can always pay Apple $99/year to get around it!
    - ok_dad 5y ago
      Plus the cost of an Apple computer to develop it on.
      - zepto 5y ago
        So what? There are plenty of other options if you want to develop software for you own use.
        ok_dad 5y ago
        Not for on my iPhone! I can't compile on Linux and publish software onto an iPhone without major trickery.
        zepto 5y ago
        You have to be the least informed hacker in the world if you bought an thinking you could do that. There are plenty of alternatives to the iPhone if you want to compile on Linux.
        dv35z 5y ago
        I have the vision of hanging at the coffee shop, jamming to headphones, pop open the iPad, open the iCloud synced IntelliJ project I was working on my MacBook Pro in the morning. To those who would say, but that's not what an iPad is for - consider this thought: The iPad is a pretty good expression device. You can draw with the pencil in Good Notes. You can paint with your fingers in Procreate. You can make music with Garage Band. With the iPad keyboard, and Obsidian.app, it's a serious writing tool. So with all of these ways to express my passion, what I'd love to do is use the iPad to express my passion to code. Using my kindergarten brain, It looks like a computer that a person could use to code. Apple seems to be investing in iPad software development capabilities - Swift Playground app. This is exciting - perhaps it will be the "iMovie" of Xcode... An aside: When someone finally comes up with an eInk laptop, we developers in Austin can chill at patio bars and enjoy the sun.
  - zepto 5y ago
    You can always buy a developer account.

threeseed 5y ago

Cloud gaming exists on iOS as well. And is just as insignificant there as it is on other platforms. And you are being disingenuous by deliberately ignoring the manual checks that Apple's review team does to prevent malicious apps from being disseminated. I work for a bank and my Mac laptop has 6 apps pre-installed designed purely to prevent malware/viruses. The same will unquestionably be needed on iOS for those using it for sensitive tasks.

keleftheriou 5y ago
Macs offer the option to run apps without any sandboxing whatsoever – meaning an app can run totally unrestricted and read, modify, or delete any file of any other app, including most system files. We’re not asking for that on iOS. So there’s no reason to think you’ll ever need "6 apps pre-installed designed purely to prevent malware/viruses” on your phone.
- zepto 5y ago
  You seem to be engaging in magical thinking by imagining that a sandbox can prevent all malware. No serious security researcher would support this claim.
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    iOS provides many more security protections beyond sandboxing.
    - zepto 5y ago
      So what? It’s clearly not enough on its own.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        When has it been not clearly enough?

scarface74 5y ago

Don’t you think that dominance worldwide might be attributed to the fact that you can get an Android phone for $50?

tragictrash 5y ago
What does this change?
- scarface74 5y ago
  It’s not dominant because of any inherent trait of Android besides it’s price.
  - tragictrash 5y ago
    I don't think you understand how this works. It's dominant. Just because you think iphone is better doesn't mean it's not dominant. Classic Tesla fanboy logic
    - scarface74 5y ago
      I’m saying just the opposite. If the argument is that people prefer Android over iPhones for reasons like “openness” [sic] that’s clearly not the case. Where users can afford iPhones either because they have the income or where carriers have easy payment plans, they buy IPhones - like in the US or the more affluent even in China.
      - zepto 5y ago
        People prefer a phone with a store curated by Apple.
FpUser 5y ago
The fact that one does not have to sell own kidney to own smartphone definitely helps I think. Does it somehow make non Apple smartphones less of a product?

zepto 5y ago

> afraid that non-App Store apps will be able to install viruses or brick their devices - which isn't the case. It absolutely is the case.

flutas 5y ago
> It absolutely is the case. If that can happen, then that is a security flaw of the device and should be fixed, no? I mean, reading a text could install a virus on iPhones last year, yet I didn't see people screaming that all texts should have to go through Apple to make sure they aren't a virus.
- smnrchrds 5y ago
  For heaven's sake, don't give Apple any more ideas!
- zepto 5y ago
  > If that can happen, then that is a security flaw of the device and should be fixed, no? Yes. It should be fixed. Guess what? Nobody has ever in human history figured out how to make software that is free of security flaws. That’s why these things are only part of the solution. > I mean, reading a text could install a virus on iPhones last year, yet I didn't see people screaming that all texts should have to go through Apple to make sure they aren't a virus If you think application software is like a text message then you don’t know enough to comment on this issue.
  - flutas 5y ago
    > If you think application software is like a text message then you don’t know enough to comment on this issue. If you think that was an example of what I think software is like, then you probably shouldn't comment on it either. I'm just commenting on the fact that, like you said, there's always going to be security issues and using them as the scapegoat for "why" this can't happen is a bad argument. What's the difference between running an app ad-hoc right now (via XCode) vs allowing a user to download and install any app they want. The answer is, there isn't any except for artificial limitations put in place by apple. Anything an app that is installed could do would be the same between the store, ad-hoc builds, or installed from a download. The security is in the platform, not the App Store. How many times have we seen something slip through Apple's review process? Fortnite got a full CC flow UI through, many apps back in the day would slip WiFi tethering into their app and get through. All it would take is a simple API call with a boolean to enable or disable the "security issue." You could always do checks to see what API calls they are using and use that as a metric of "security" but that can also be done device-side. "Hey, this app is using a sketchy API that shouldn't be public, we're going to block it."

gpm 5y ago

And the hardware quality and features aren't things that android can just copy, because Apple has numerous government enforced monopolies on their technology called patents. This isn't a free market.