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> This is a place for a generic open protocol. Not sure if you've seen but Apple opened the Find-My network to other vendors: https://www.apple.com/ee/newsroom

> This is a place for a generic open protocol. Not sure if you've seen but Apple opened the Find-My network to other vendors: https://www.apple.com/ee/newsroom/2021/04/apples-find-my-network-now-offers-new-third-party-finding-experiences https://www.apple.com/ee/newsroom/2021/04/apples-find-my-net...

smoldesu 5y ago
...but didn't open the protocol to third parties. In other words, it's as "open" as the lightning connector is: "pay us $x for every product you ship, and we won't sue you for using it" Apple's marketing must train in the Matrix for how good they are at dodging bullets...
- dylan604 5y ago
  at the same time, you are using the Apple network/infrastructure of iDevices that track that item for you. Every Apple device that passes your lost product helps find your product. Should they be doing that for free? Serious question.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Apple is free to charge whatever they want for the use of their servers and infrastructure, and while it's not a good look, they're also welcome to charge again for the use of their intellectual property. However, that's not a reason that third-parties shouldn't be able to access that data. If I've got a Google Pixel in my pocket, the cost is marginal for me to send an API request to Apple's servers and use Find My elsewhere. Hell, Apple could force third-party devices to enable Bluetooth pinging in exchange for their use of the Find My network. It's apparently been lucrative enough on iPhone, I see no reasons besides "muh walled garden" that they shouldn't extend the functionality to other users.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Sounds like you're thinking about how the first pill costs $7 million to make, but pills 2-inf only cost $0.02. Sure, it doesn't cost anything to wiggle some electrons, but it took effort to build out the infrastructure to do something when those electrons move. It takes effort to maintain it as well. I'm able to see both sides. We all like free things, but free things cost some body some thing some where. If the vendor/maker of a thing needs to pay a license to make it look free to the consumer, that doesn't seem egregious to me. After all, they'll just roll that into the price of the product.
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        Ultimately, I agree with you. My overall point though is that opening the Find My network to other vendors isn't the same as opening the protocol. What Apple does in B2B sales is none of my concern.
        dylan604 5y ago
        I was really just playing devil's advocate. It just seems like everyone expects things to be given away as charity. Apple is not a 501(c), so if they come up with something, it's because they think there's a revenue stream in it. The entire thing works so well precisely because there are so many Apple devices in the wild, and Apple is looking to capitalize on that.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        They're welcome to do whatever they please. Doesn't change the fact that they're the largest company in the world though, nor does it exempt them from a bit of criticism for being one of the most ruthless forces in capitalism today. I don't think it's wrong to expect them to set a good example for the thousands of organizations that choose to follow their path.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        “Setting a good example” is completely and utterly subjective, and should not be left to a company to manage. If society deems something is in the best interests of society, it should be regulated by law. Asking companies to mind themselves in regards to what is best for society at large, while also mandating they maximize value for shareholders, is confusing at best.
  - ohyeshedid 5y ago
    > Should they be doing that for free? Serious question. If they don't provide the network: what value do the tags, you bought with money, provide?
    - dwighttk 5y ago
      If you buy from Apple they do provide the network. If you buy from 3rd party and 3rd party doesn’t pay Apple, why should Apple provide the network?
      - ohyeshedid 5y ago
        I wasn't saying they should; and I'm not taking a side on anything. I don't have enough information to properly answer you. Are there third party tracking device manufacturers with free access to these systems? Are you talking about stolen or bootleg goods? The latter is a much more complicated topic, for sure.
        dylan604 5y ago
        The question as asked seems pretty clear to me. If Company A builds a product/service, why should Company B be expected to utilize Company A's work without compensation? What more information do you need?
        ohyeshedid 5y ago
        The questions, as asked, are lacking in tangible reality dynamics and are phrased with bias. My first response to the first version of that loaded question: "_I wasn't saying they should_..." You respond with: "If Company A builds a product/service, why should Company B be expected to utilize Company A's work without compensation?" Am I to believe you're being genuine here? Should I really repeat myself again, in text, to save you a scroll up? I didn't say that. I never implied that. I stated the exact opposite. Why are you asking me to rationalize and explain a stance I've never taken, and don't have?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    You have a point about the infrastructure. But the devices themselves aren't Apple's devices, they are owned by Apple customers. I'd bet most of these Apple customers would be fine with you "using" their devices for free to locate your stuff, as long as you don't charge them either when they use your devices to locate their stuff.

smoldesu 5y ago

...but didn't open the protocol to third parties. In other words, it's as "open" as the lightning connector is: "pay us $x for every product you ship, and we won't sue you for using it" Apple's marketing must train in the Matrix for how good they are at dodging bullets...

dylan604 5y ago
at the same time, you are using the Apple network/infrastructure of iDevices that track that item for you. Every Apple device that passes your lost product helps find your product. Should they be doing that for free? Serious question.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Apple is free to charge whatever they want for the use of their servers and infrastructure, and while it's not a good look, they're also welcome to charge again for the use of their intellectual property. However, that's not a reason that third-parties shouldn't be able to access that data. If I've got a Google Pixel in my pocket, the cost is marginal for me to send an API request to Apple's servers and use Find My elsewhere. Hell, Apple could force third-party devices to enable Bluetooth pinging in exchange for their use of the Find My network. It's apparently been lucrative enough on iPhone, I see no reasons besides "muh walled garden" that they shouldn't extend the functionality to other users.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Sounds like you're thinking about how the first pill costs $7 million to make, but pills 2-inf only cost $0.02. Sure, it doesn't cost anything to wiggle some electrons, but it took effort to build out the infrastructure to do something when those electrons move. It takes effort to maintain it as well. I'm able to see both sides. We all like free things, but free things cost some body some thing some where. If the vendor/maker of a thing needs to pay a license to make it look free to the consumer, that doesn't seem egregious to me. After all, they'll just roll that into the price of the product.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Ultimately, I agree with you. My overall point though is that opening the Find My network to other vendors isn't the same as opening the protocol. What Apple does in B2B sales is none of my concern.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        I was really just playing devil's advocate. It just seems like everyone expects things to be given away as charity. Apple is not a 501(c), so if they come up with something, it's because they think there's a revenue stream in it. The entire thing works so well precisely because there are so many Apple devices in the wild, and Apple is looking to capitalize on that.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        They're welcome to do whatever they please. Doesn't change the fact that they're the largest company in the world though, nor does it exempt them from a bit of criticism for being one of the most ruthless forces in capitalism today. I don't think it's wrong to expect them to set a good example for the thousands of organizations that choose to follow their path.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        “Setting a good example” is completely and utterly subjective, and should not be left to a company to manage. If society deems something is in the best interests of society, it should be regulated by law. Asking companies to mind themselves in regards to what is best for society at large, while also mandating they maximize value for shareholders, is confusing at best.
- ohyeshedid 5y ago
  > Should they be doing that for free? Serious question. If they don't provide the network: what value do the tags, you bought with money, provide?
  - dwighttk 5y ago
    If you buy from Apple they do provide the network. If you buy from 3rd party and 3rd party doesn’t pay Apple, why should Apple provide the network?
    - ohyeshedid 5y ago
      I wasn't saying they should; and I'm not taking a side on anything. I don't have enough information to properly answer you. Are there third party tracking device manufacturers with free access to these systems? Are you talking about stolen or bootleg goods? The latter is a much more complicated topic, for sure.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        The question as asked seems pretty clear to me. If Company A builds a product/service, why should Company B be expected to utilize Company A's work without compensation? What more information do you need?
        ohyeshedid 5y ago
        The questions, as asked, are lacking in tangible reality dynamics and are phrased with bias. My first response to the first version of that loaded question: "_I wasn't saying they should_..." You respond with: "If Company A builds a product/service, why should Company B be expected to utilize Company A's work without compensation?" Am I to believe you're being genuine here? Should I really repeat myself again, in text, to save you a scroll up? I didn't say that. I never implied that. I stated the exact opposite. Why are you asking me to rationalize and explain a stance I've never taken, and don't have?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- rndgermandude 5y ago
  You have a point about the infrastructure. But the devices themselves aren't Apple's devices, they are owned by Apple customers. I'd bet most of these Apple customers would be fine with you "using" their devices for free to locate your stuff, as long as you don't charge them either when they use your devices to locate their stuff.