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I'm not convinced it's pandemic related. Over time, the signal to noise ratio of any public group decreases, or else it turns into an oligarchic gated community

I'm not convinced it's pandemic related. Over time, the signal to noise ratio of any public group decreases, or else it turns into an oligarchic gated community. I keep a kind of running list of users with whom I've had conflict, and I've come to the conclusion that either: 1) There are a whole lot of bot type accounts here, developed over many years. 2) The "Endless September" effect has brought down the level of discourse. Wish I could get my hands on a larger data set than what I've been able to collect manually, but I can't help but notice in my casual sampling that there are a large number of user accounts here that have been created within approximately the past 6 years that have very low karma, float in and out over weeks and months (IE: not regular commenters) and who when they do show up, act in deliberately negative and aggressive ways, often posting bursts of comments in short order. It's very bot-like. The other thing I've noticed is that even the crowd that I can identify as human, has changed considerably over the decade. It seems to me like in the past there were a lot more entrepreneurs and technical people with significant seniority. It feels like the age of the crowd is much younger now, and let's be blunt... there are reasons that stereotypes exist around 20-something techie young (predominantly) men as being arrogant and having few social graces. In this regard, HN has become a reflection of its commenters. If I could find another place with the diversity of interesting topics found here, I'd go elsewhere. The discourses here is seldom pleasant, and hasn't been for a number of years. It's a step above what Slashdot was back in the day, but not by much.

Mezzie 5y ago
> It seems to me like in the past there were a lot more entrepreneurs and technical people with significant seniority. It feels like the age of the crowd is much younger now, and let's be blunt... there are reasons that stereotypes exist around 20-something techie young (predominantly) men as being arrogant and having few social graces. In this regard, HN has become a reflection of its commenters. It's fascinating because I agree with you on the former but not the latter. I definitely think there's been a demographic shift from the 'original' people who just built their own things because that's what everybody was doing (a space of creativity) to the next generation who is emulating instead of creating. Which is odd. On the other hand, the 20-something techie men culture was always a problem, speaking as someone who was here in the beginning. I was a 19 year old lesbian when HN was founded, and it was pretty damn hostile. I learned to keep it to myself.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  I hear what you are saying, especially since we lack real quantitative data here and are speaking subjectively about how we perceive a decade+ of discussion... I'm sure you are right that there was always an undertone of young men trying to one-up each other with comments. My gut tells me though that if we go back in time, there were more actual experts commenting, who drowned out or downvoted the people just here to shit post. Maybe not though, as your experiences bear out.
Klonoar 5y ago
Your comment hits the nail on the head for me. Regarding bots, it feels like any time this issue is discussed here it gets pushed down rather quickly. I really think it should be examined harder though. I outright stopped glancing at /new since it often looks like the same accounts trying to push some messaging (e.g vaccine rhetoric, often from some random substack). Your other point is one I’ve tried to put into words lately. I think I even put it to one friend (a YC founder no less) that “the people who actually wanted to build something left long ago, and often all that feels left is the old crowd that just complains about specific tech repeatedly”. If I see another discussion repeating the same Linux on the desktop talking points, or the problems with Electron, I’ll scream.
- poulsbohemian 5y ago
  Yes! I think you nail all of the above, including your numbness to some of the more mundane topics that pop up here regularly. I can't help but notice that there are certain topics that come around frequently - some technical, some not - where it feels very planted. Like someone has an agenda to bring up certain topics in order to get some kind of pulse, IE: if we just talked about that two weeks ago, why is this topic back again?
JacobThreeThree 5y ago
>1) There are a whole lot of bot type accounts here, developed over many years. This is the elephant in the room for all internet services that are primarily focused on user generated content. It is my opinion that the majority (>50%) of user generated content online is not made by authentic users, but instead made by astroturf accounts who are paid to generate the content. These same accounts will also be leveraging bots to boost engagement signals etc.

Mezzie 5y ago

> It seems to me like in the past there were a lot more entrepreneurs and technical people with significant seniority. It feels like the age of the crowd is much younger now, and let's be blunt... there are reasons that stereotypes exist around 20-something techie young (predominantly) men as being arrogant and having few social graces. In this regard, HN has become a reflection of its commenters. It's fascinating because I agree with you on the former but not the latter. I definitely think there's been a demographic shift from the 'original' people who just built their own things because that's what everybody was doing (a space of creativity) to the next generation who is emulating instead of creating. Which is odd. On the other hand, the 20-something techie men culture was always a problem, speaking as someone who was here in the beginning. I was a 19 year old lesbian when HN was founded, and it was pretty damn hostile. I learned to keep it to myself.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
I hear what you are saying, especially since we lack real quantitative data here and are speaking subjectively about how we perceive a decade+ of discussion... I'm sure you are right that there was always an undertone of young men trying to one-up each other with comments. My gut tells me though that if we go back in time, there were more actual experts commenting, who drowned out or downvoted the people just here to shit post. Maybe not though, as your experiences bear out.

Klonoar 5y ago

Your comment hits the nail on the head for me. Regarding bots, it feels like any time this issue is discussed here it gets pushed down rather quickly. I really think it should be examined harder though. I outright stopped glancing at /new since it often looks like the same accounts trying to push some messaging (e.g vaccine rhetoric, often from some random substack). Your other point is one I’ve tried to put into words lately. I think I even put it to one friend (a YC founder no less) that “the people who actually wanted to build something left long ago, and often all that feels left is the old crowd that just complains about specific tech repeatedly”. If I see another discussion repeating the same Linux on the desktop talking points, or the problems with Electron, I’ll scream.

poulsbohemian 5y ago
Yes! I think you nail all of the above, including your numbness to some of the more mundane topics that pop up here regularly. I can't help but notice that there are certain topics that come around frequently - some technical, some not - where it feels very planted. Like someone has an agenda to bring up certain topics in order to get some kind of pulse, IE: if we just talked about that two weeks ago, why is this topic back again?

JacobThreeThree 5y ago

>1) There are a whole lot of bot type accounts here, developed over many years. This is the elephant in the room for all internet services that are primarily focused on user generated content. It is my opinion that the majority (>50%) of user generated content online is not made by authentic users, but instead made by astroturf accounts who are paid to generate the content. These same accounts will also be leveraging bots to boost engagement signals etc.