4 ms·

This is exactly right. Now that PG&E has built a sizable solar installation base, the NEM3.0 move is to make sure they can capture more profit. Their plan for p

This is exactly right. Now that PG&E has built a sizable solar installation base, the NEM3.0 move is to make sure they can capture more profit. Their plan for passing NEM3.0 seems to be to cry and moan about how they're being taken advantage of by individuals who paid $30k to install solar panels on their homes.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
When your business model is getting a guaranteed ~10% return on equity, you’re going to fight hard to not give up your cash cow. https://dms.psc.sc.gov/Attachments/Matter/5f64b1b3-d2bc-4b20-abb7-6e36ed1a220f https://dms.psc.sc.gov/Attachments/Matter/5f64b1b3-d2bc-4b20...
- skybrian 5y ago
  Not really guaranteed if you consider the risk of bankruptcy due to wildfires.
14 5y ago
People need to be off the grid completely and when that happens what will these power companies do? If we ever get the affordable battery system that are always just around the corner that will allow this to happen. I look forward to the day. Our electric company has been raising rates and the system is not fair. It is tiered so the more you use the more you pay in hopes to reduce usage. Fair enough. But in my house we have 5 adults and 4 children. We have the same tier as someone with 1 adult and no children. So even though we are more environmentally friendly and our heat heats 9 people, our lights provide light for 9 people, because we use more electricity in other areas like showers we always end up at the higher tier paying a lot for electric even though on a per individual basis we use less electricity. I unfortunately am in Canada and the solar power just isn’t efficient enough here to make it worth while.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > People need to be off the grid completely I thought that when I was 16. Now that I'm 58, there is no way in hell I am in favor of every household having energy storage systems sufficient to see them through every night and season of high energy use. I'm all for some level of distributed power generation, and some level of distributed energy storage, but "people need to be off the grid completely" is, IMO, a step too far.
  - zbrozek 5y ago
    I'm 34 and am working towards being grid-independent because the cost exceeds the value.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      As I've described here (comment in thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195830 ), it would be essentially absurd to try to go fully offgrid in our home here near Santa Fe. Note that I define full offgrid as "not burning wood to supplement electricity usage for heat", which may differ from your view.
      - zbrozek 5y ago
        It's a lot easier for me than for you. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so my climate is milder on both extremes. Also I'm DIYing everything and scavenging discarded stuff where I can, so my costs are abnormally low. When all is said and done I'll have ~40-50 KWh of storage and a 20 KWp solar array for <$20k. And my cost of electricity is probably far higher than yours, so I have more incentive. When I think of grid independence, I mean the electric grid. I'm keeping an existing gas-fired heating system in addition to installing a heat pump system. I also have a generator.
        ed25519FUUU 5y ago
        Have you checked to make sure you can actually disconnect from PG&E? Grid defection is not legal in almost all cities of any size. They make some exceptions for new construction that was never attached to the grid.
- ed25519FUUU 5y ago
  Grid defection is illegal in almost every municipality in the country. Companies like PG&E have a legislated monopoly and there's no other option for you.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

When your business model is getting a guaranteed ~10% return on equity, you’re going to fight hard to not give up your cash cow. https://dms.psc.sc.gov/Attachments/Matter/5f64b1b3-d2bc-4b20-abb7-6e36ed1a220f https://dms.psc.sc.gov/Attachments/Matter/5f64b1b3-d2bc-4b20...

skybrian 5y ago
Not really guaranteed if you consider the risk of bankruptcy due to wildfires.

14 5y ago

People need to be off the grid completely and when that happens what will these power companies do? If we ever get the affordable battery system that are always just around the corner that will allow this to happen. I look forward to the day. Our electric company has been raising rates and the system is not fair. It is tiered so the more you use the more you pay in hopes to reduce usage. Fair enough. But in my house we have 5 adults and 4 children. We have the same tier as someone with 1 adult and no children. So even though we are more environmentally friendly and our heat heats 9 people, our lights provide light for 9 people, because we use more electricity in other areas like showers we always end up at the higher tier paying a lot for electric even though on a per individual basis we use less electricity. I unfortunately am in Canada and the solar power just isn’t efficient enough here to make it worth while.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
> People need to be off the grid completely I thought that when I was 16. Now that I'm 58, there is no way in hell I am in favor of every household having energy storage systems sufficient to see them through every night and season of high energy use. I'm all for some level of distributed power generation, and some level of distributed energy storage, but "people need to be off the grid completely" is, IMO, a step too far.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  I'm 34 and am working towards being grid-independent because the cost exceeds the value.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    As I've described here (comment in thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195830 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30195830 ), it would be essentially absurd to try to go fully offgrid in our home here near Santa Fe. Note that I define full offgrid as "not burning wood to supplement electricity usage for heat", which may differ from your view.
    - zbrozek 5y ago
      It's a lot easier for me than for you. I'm in the SF Bay Area, so my climate is milder on both extremes. Also I'm DIYing everything and scavenging discarded stuff where I can, so my costs are abnormally low. When all is said and done I'll have ~40-50 KWh of storage and a 20 KWp solar array for <$20k. And my cost of electricity is probably far higher than yours, so I have more incentive. When I think of grid independence, I mean the electric grid. I'm keeping an existing gas-fired heating system in addition to installing a heat pump system. I also have a generator.
      - ed25519FUUU 5y ago
        Have you checked to make sure you can actually disconnect from PG&E? Grid defection is not legal in almost all cities of any size. They make some exceptions for new construction that was never attached to the grid.
ed25519FUUU 5y ago
Grid defection is illegal in almost every municipality in the country. Companies like PG&E have a legislated monopoly and there's no other option for you.