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Exactly. The irony of Mercedes-Benz engineers marveling at how unsophisticated a simply-engineered vehicle is brought a smile to my face. Most owner-operator tr

Exactly. The irony of Mercedes-Benz engineers marveling at how unsophisticated a simply-engineered vehicle is brought a smile to my face. Most owner-operator truck drivers want to be able to fix and maintain their trucks on their own, not bring the truck into the dealer every 3 months like some temperamental S-class. Although I guess Mercedes was still pretty reliable back in the 80's.

jacquesm 5y ago
MB trucks are an entirely different kettle of fish than the consumer and light transport stuff. It all changes above the 3500 kg mark.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  In the US their Sprinters compare to the competition about the same way an S-class compares to a Camry. In both cases it's generally considered ill-advised to own it into old age. I wouldn't call that "entirely different"
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Sprinters routinely clock half a million K. You need to maintain them but that goes for all vehicles. And they are still below that 3500 kg limit. It really starts at Atego: https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-construction.html https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-cons...
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      If the Sprinter took a comparable amount of maintenance to deliver the same service it would not have the reputation it does. It's not like people are jumping to conclusions based on brand either. It was initially branded as a Dodge or Freighter/Sterling. The only operators who like it are high end passenger fleets that depreciate them and then get new ones. Now, in its defense, people do generally hate the FWD Fiat van more...
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        I've seen some of this. People were bitching about their MBs not lasting long enough: turns out they were skimping on the oil, using regular oil rather than the synthetic oil those engines need. Synthetic oil is a lot more expensive but it lasts much longer. But America likes its oil changes, every ridiculously low number of miles because they believe that is what will make their cars last, rather than to use quality oil to begin with. MB engines are indestructible if treated properly, they routinely outlast the body of the vehicles, they have oversized oil pumps, use chains rather than timing belts (a common failure point) and in general are designed to last. There is plenty wrong with MB, their electronics absolutely suck and don't get me started on their software or their over priced parts. But their engines are solid.
cycomanic 5y ago
You really think that owner operators repair their own trucks? That doesn't make any economic sense. This is not a hobby, they need to drive to make money not to play truck repairman. I'm always astonished how US Americans try to justify poor engineering with "advantage of simplicity". It's like arguing that you want to program using punch cards because that makes you feel closer to the machine and you have a "physical" copy of your programs.
- BenjiWiebe 5y ago
  Yep, owner operators repair their own trucks. Sometimes even fairly major engine work. However, you can have well-engineered simplicity, too, and that seems to be rare. (As opposed to poorly engineered simplicity or highly engineered complexity.)
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  There are many areas of the US where a truck driver might find themself hours away from a mechanic or tow truck. I assume there is some value in fixability, assuming the reliability is not too much less than a less fixable truck.
- stevehawk 5y ago
  Do they want to spend their time doing it? No. Do they have a choice in most of the country? No. Trucks don't conveniently break down at the mechanic's shop.
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  Simplicity also means less time in the shop when needed too, they usually charge by the hour. Also in the 80s I could totally see that. On the side of the road, hood up fix it right there. Remember they probably had CB radio which is limited range, no phone and the closest town is 50 miles behind you. Also depending on the job it can make very good economic sense to DIY. My brother in law just had to fix something on his car. They quoted him 2500. He fixed it himself for about the cost of some used parts (80 bucks) and a half day of his time. Trucks are no different.
- CountSessine 5y ago
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
Actually, I think the irony is the other way around. I've read that worldwide, MB vehicles dominate many markets (e.g. African taxi and trucking) precisely because they are so easy to do local non-dealer maintainance on. Most of the world thinks of many MB vehicles as workhorses, not luxury or sophisticated vehicles.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Yes, MB deliberately cultivated a "luxury" brand image in the US and did not import very many of the "workhorse" models (the ones with smaller engines, manual transmissions, and few options) that the rest world knows.
- CountSessine 5y ago
  I've often wondered about this. Here in North America we only get the Mercedes models that need their disc rotors replaced every 30k, and we see nothing of the indestructible and serviceable models that seem to wind up in places without posh MB dealerships. I've always thought that this was because NA has air pollution laws that are strictly and honestly enforced and that that would make diesel cars difficult to offer.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    >I've always thought that this was because NA has air pollution laws that are strictly and honestly enforced and that that would make diesel cars difficult to offer. Yes, the US regulates NOx emissions much more than Europe. This makes it very hard to offer passenger diesel engines in the US. On the other hand, the EU regulates/taxes CO2 emissions, which the US does only indirectly through CAFE (fuel efficiency) regulations.
    - oblio 5y ago
      How is US fuel efficiency, though? In Europe cars using 5 liters per 100 km (~48 miles per gallon for the SI-resistant amongst us) are very common.
Teknoman117 5y ago
There days Mercedes doesn't really export non-luxury vehicles to the US except for maybe sprinter vans.

jacquesm 5y ago

MB trucks are an entirely different kettle of fish than the consumer and light transport stuff. It all changes above the 3500 kg mark.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
In the US their Sprinters compare to the competition about the same way an S-class compares to a Camry. In both cases it's generally considered ill-advised to own it into old age. I wouldn't call that "entirely different"
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Sprinters routinely clock half a million K. You need to maintain them but that goes for all vehicles. And they are still below that 3500 kg limit. It really starts at Atego: https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-construction.html https://www.mercedes-benz-trucks.com/nl_NL/models/atego-cons...
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    If the Sprinter took a comparable amount of maintenance to deliver the same service it would not have the reputation it does. It's not like people are jumping to conclusions based on brand either. It was initially branded as a Dodge or Freighter/Sterling. The only operators who like it are high end passenger fleets that depreciate them and then get new ones. Now, in its defense, people do generally hate the FWD Fiat van more...
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I've seen some of this. People were bitching about their MBs not lasting long enough: turns out they were skimping on the oil, using regular oil rather than the synthetic oil those engines need. Synthetic oil is a lot more expensive but it lasts much longer. But America likes its oil changes, every ridiculously low number of miles because they believe that is what will make their cars last, rather than to use quality oil to begin with. MB engines are indestructible if treated properly, they routinely outlast the body of the vehicles, they have oversized oil pumps, use chains rather than timing belts (a common failure point) and in general are designed to last. There is plenty wrong with MB, their electronics absolutely suck and don't get me started on their software or their over priced parts. But their engines are solid.

cycomanic 5y ago

You really think that owner operators repair their own trucks? That doesn't make any economic sense. This is not a hobby, they need to drive to make money not to play truck repairman. I'm always astonished how US Americans try to justify poor engineering with "advantage of simplicity". It's like arguing that you want to program using punch cards because that makes you feel closer to the machine and you have a "physical" copy of your programs.

BenjiWiebe 5y ago
Yep, owner operators repair their own trucks. Sometimes even fairly major engine work. However, you can have well-engineered simplicity, too, and that seems to be rare. (As opposed to poorly engineered simplicity or highly engineered complexity.)
lotsofpulp 5y ago
There are many areas of the US where a truck driver might find themself hours away from a mechanic or tow truck. I assume there is some value in fixability, assuming the reliability is not too much less than a less fixable truck.
stevehawk 5y ago
Do they want to spend their time doing it? No. Do they have a choice in most of the country? No. Trucks don't conveniently break down at the mechanic's shop.
sumtechguy 5y ago
Simplicity also means less time in the shop when needed too, they usually charge by the hour. Also in the 80s I could totally see that. On the side of the road, hood up fix it right there. Remember they probably had CB radio which is limited range, no phone and the closest town is 50 miles behind you. Also depending on the job it can make very good economic sense to DIY. My brother in law just had to fix something on his car. They quoted him 2500. He fixed it himself for about the cost of some used parts (80 bucks) and a half day of his time. Trucks are no different.
CountSessine 5y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

Actually, I think the irony is the other way around. I've read that worldwide, MB vehicles dominate many markets (e.g. African taxi and trucking) precisely because they are so easy to do local non-dealer maintainance on. Most of the world thinks of many MB vehicles as workhorses, not luxury or sophisticated vehicles.

throwawayboise 5y ago
Yes, MB deliberately cultivated a "luxury" brand image in the US and did not import very many of the "workhorse" models (the ones with smaller engines, manual transmissions, and few options) that the rest world knows.
CountSessine 5y ago
I've often wondered about this. Here in North America we only get the Mercedes models that need their disc rotors replaced every 30k, and we see nothing of the indestructible and serviceable models that seem to wind up in places without posh MB dealerships. I've always thought that this was because NA has air pollution laws that are strictly and honestly enforced and that that would make diesel cars difficult to offer.
- xxpor 5y ago
  >I've always thought that this was because NA has air pollution laws that are strictly and honestly enforced and that that would make diesel cars difficult to offer. Yes, the US regulates NOx emissions much more than Europe. This makes it very hard to offer passenger diesel engines in the US. On the other hand, the EU regulates/taxes CO2 emissions, which the US does only indirectly through CAFE (fuel efficiency) regulations.
  - oblio 5y ago
    How is US fuel efficiency, though? In Europe cars using 5 liters per 100 km (~48 miles per gallon for the SI-resistant amongst us) are very common.

Teknoman117 5y ago

There days Mercedes doesn't really export non-luxury vehicles to the US except for maybe sprinter vans.