5 ms·

The same reason you aren't supposed to use the words: + master + slave + blacklist + whitelist + grandfather + brown bag + manpower + hijack + kill Th

The same reason you aren't supposed to use the words: + master + slave + blacklist + whitelist + grandfather + brown bag + manpower + hijack + kill The list goes on (and on) and I have not transcribed even a portion of it. https://itconnect.uw.edu/work/inclusive-language-guide/ https://itconnect.uw.edu/work/inclusive-language-guide/ https://blog.ongig.com/writing-job-descriptions/a-list-of-offensive-exclusionary-words-used-in-job-descriptions/ https://blog.ongig.com/writing-job-descriptions/a-list-of-of...

moffkalast 5y ago
> grandfather What do you call your dad's dad then?
- yepthatsreality 5y ago
  Main
  - itisit 5y ago
    Extant root parent
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  Grandfather. If you look at the website, it explains in detail: A “grandfather” clause, “grandfather” policy or “grandfathering” in IT s a provision in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations while a new rule will apply to all future cases. Those exempt from the new rule are said to have grandfather rights, acquired rights, or to have been grandfathered in. Why it’s problematic: “Grandfathering” or “grandfather clause” was used as a way to exempt some people from a change because of conditions that existed before the change (e.g., we’ve grandfathered some users on an unlimited data plan.”) “Grandfather clause” originated in the American South in the 1890s as a way to defy the 15th Amendment and prevent black Americans from voting.
  - moffkalast 5y ago
    > The cakewalk was a pre-Civil War dance performed by enslaved people, and the winner of which would be given a cake. This is the original source for the phrases “takes the cake” and “cakewalk.” Because of this history, this word and phrase should be avoided. > Brown bags trace back to the “brown paper bag test,” which was traditionally used to judge skin color by certain African-American sororities and fraternities. References to a “brown bag” when we are really referencing a get-together over lunch surfaces an ugly period of American history that can alienate and offend people. > (no can do) What might seem like a folksy, abbreviated version of “I can’t do it” is actually an imitation of Chinese Pidgin English. The phrase dates from the mid-nineteenth to early-twentieth centuries, an era when Western attitudes towards the Chinese were markedly racist. > Using the word “pow wow” is cultural misappropriation, and ultimately racist. > Referring to something as your spirit animal is cultural appropriation. Some of these are pretty wild.
    - kayodelycaon 5y ago
      Some of the stuff in the list is okay. The master/slave change is something I agree with. Black/white I can see… Some of this feels like someone tried really hard to find problems that didn’t exist and fix them.
      - dudeman13 5y ago
        >Some of this feels like someone tried really hard to find problems that didn’t exist and fix them. That's how a lot of people feel about master/slave and black/white.
        kayodelycaon 5y ago
        Okay. Let's break this down. You have the word "master". It has at least two meanings in standard English and an additional one for technical jargon. Let's call these concepts owner/slave, expert/apprentice, and primary/secondary. Even though owner/slave and primary/secondary are different concepts, the technical jargon makes the unfortunate reference the owner/slave meaning because of the use of the word "slave". It's difficult to defense the use of master/slave in this context. The master in the expert/apprentice concept could be called leader, expert, or teacher and no one would have a problem with that. This distinction is where people start getting upset. I'd argue most technical people didn't even give a second thought to master/slave and for them they never considered it to be anything other than primary/secondary because owner/slave is no longer common use and hasn't been for a while. Besides, US Civil War was more than 150 years ago! Who gives a shit? Well... people do because the effects of that war still affect our society and no one agrees on how to fix it. Removing problematic phrasing from our language as part of that makes sense. No one agrees on that either.
- k__ 5y ago
  For some of these words it's more about context. You can call your grandfather like you wish. You can also call stuff black.
  - rory 5y ago
    Ironically, the context in which the linked post uses the word "master" is closer to the slavery-related usage than the git context of the word.
rory 5y ago
This one's a bit disturbing. Problem words: lower the bar Suggested Alternatives: simplify, inclusive, make more accessible
kbrannigan 5y ago
I am black but not from the USA I'm from the Caribbean. It's hilarious how people perceive those who look like me. Like we are some hyper-sensitive, fragile babies who cannot understand nuance of speech. It's even worse when some white Americans are afraid to joke around me or poke fun at me, because they don't want to punch down. Meanwhile I feel more privileged than most white Americans. I speak 3 languages perfectly. One favor a hiring manager did for me, was giving me a tougher interview than most other candidates. He made sure everyone knew I was hired because I'm good at my job, not because I'm a "diversity-hired to fill some quota". When I first moved here, I saw myself as a nerdy kid, who liked computers and wanted to build and create stuff. I saw myself as a human being who happened to look a certain way. I saw white people or Asian people just the same. Then I made the mistake of consuming "woke content" on reddit and Twitter and it affected me, after college those ideas limited me in ways I could only imagine. I really hope people see me as a bright kid whose into computers not some oppressed victim. By the way, racism and prejudice exists but they show up differently. Oh well!
- cdcarter 5y ago
  > Then I made the mistake of consuming "woke content" on reddit and Twitter and it affected me, after college those ideas limited me in ways I could only imagine. Can you share more about this experience?
  - kbrannigan 5y ago
    The "woke content" just lumps everybody in one big pile, categorizes everyone in order to validate a theory: After living here for 15 years, I have realized the main narrative of the "black experience" "what is means to be black" is very Anglo-US-centric. In college, I met a Jamaican guy, the culture shock was just as intense as when I met that girl from mongolia. Totally different cultures and customs. But on paper, in the USA , Me and that Jamaican guy were just Black. I had more in common with the White French exchange student than with the Black-American kid from Virginia. To me: that black American kid and a white American kid were the same. From an academical, political standpoint, Black has become synonymous with "African-American" Not just any "African-American", poor disenfranchised black Americans who are likely from the "ghetto". White means: some mean monster , who are controlling the world and are out to get everybody. So naturally I started to second guess how people acted around me. Don't get me wrong racism is still alive and well I have experienced it in various forms: * Prepaid for a meal at a fancy restaurant, the people before me just gave a name and grabbed their food, I was asked to show a receipt. * Jogging in my neighborhood and having the police follow me around, almost like clockwork can't be a coincidence. (They became cool once they learned I lived there). * Going out with my white coworkers in casual clothing vs going out with my siblings in casual clothing we have to dress extra fancy to get treated the same, otherwise we get poor service - The black guilt to tip extra at restaurants) But: Most of the white people I've met were amazing, great people. That mean guy, is probably a jerk to everyone and just happens to be white. There needs to be a balance, raise awareness about issues of society, but don't go to the extreme. In my language: "The sky is blue, he is about to rain. I need to move my car otherwise she will get flooded"
pizzaknife 5y ago
i never knew this - thank you for the link quote from the link: Definition: A “cakewalk” is an easy victory or task. “Takes the cake” means to win the prize or to rank first. Why it’s problematic: The cakewalk was a pre-Civil War dance performed by enslaved people, and the winner of which would be given a cake. This is the original source for the phrases “takes the cake” and “cakewalk.” Because of this history, this word and phrase should be avoided.
swagasaurus-rex 5y ago
By not saying these words, how are we helping minorities? Can somebody please be clear on how ACTUAL PROBLEMS suffered by the disavantaged are solved by wordplay? Words don't cure poverty. Words don't reverse socioeconomic trends. Words don't give opportunity, cure abuses, change what our ancestors went through. To me it looks very much like signalling, with no real effort.
ask_b123 5y ago
Why is black box included? My first introduction to the term was in the first chapter of SICP and it speaks positively about abstraction. Also, I'm still not sure why cultural appropriation is actually considered bad. Anecdata for sure, but I remember one time my cousin (who is of my same culture) excitedly tell us about how in another country (in another continent), a singer from our country was quite famous and they listened to his songs and even sometimes wore clothing from our country. It seems like our cuisine is popular there too. And all of us thought it was very cool!
pmarreck 5y ago
Is it frowned upon yet to describe something that may be deeply interesting to a niche as "porn" of it? (Like a pro-ZFS article being "BSD porn")

moffkalast 5y ago

> grandfather What do you call your dad's dad then?

yepthatsreality 5y ago
Main
- itisit 5y ago
  Extant root parent
kayodelycaon 5y ago
Grandfather. If you look at the website, it explains in detail: A “grandfather” clause, “grandfather” policy or “grandfathering” in IT s a provision in which an old rule continues to apply to some existing situations while a new rule will apply to all future cases. Those exempt from the new rule are said to have grandfather rights, acquired rights, or to have been grandfathered in. Why it’s problematic: “Grandfathering” or “grandfather clause” was used as a way to exempt some people from a change because of conditions that existed before the change (e.g., we’ve grandfathered some users on an unlimited data plan.”) “Grandfather clause” originated in the American South in the 1890s as a way to defy the 15th Amendment and prevent black Americans from voting.
- moffkalast 5y ago
  > The cakewalk was a pre-Civil War dance performed by enslaved people, and the winner of which would be given a cake. This is the original source for the phrases “takes the cake” and “cakewalk.” Because of this history, this word and phrase should be avoided. > Brown bags trace back to the “brown paper bag test,” which was traditionally used to judge skin color by certain African-American sororities and fraternities. References to a “brown bag” when we are really referencing a get-together over lunch surfaces an ugly period of American history that can alienate and offend people. > (no can do) What might seem like a folksy, abbreviated version of “I can’t do it” is actually an imitation of Chinese Pidgin English. The phrase dates from the mid-nineteenth to early-twentieth centuries, an era when Western attitudes towards the Chinese were markedly racist. > Using the word “pow wow” is cultural misappropriation, and ultimately racist. > Referring to something as your spirit animal is cultural appropriation. Some of these are pretty wild.
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    Some of the stuff in the list is okay. The master/slave change is something I agree with. Black/white I can see… Some of this feels like someone tried really hard to find problems that didn’t exist and fix them.
    - dudeman13 5y ago
      >Some of this feels like someone tried really hard to find problems that didn’t exist and fix them. That's how a lot of people feel about master/slave and black/white.
      - kayodelycaon 5y ago
        Okay. Let's break this down. You have the word "master". It has at least two meanings in standard English and an additional one for technical jargon. Let's call these concepts owner/slave, expert/apprentice, and primary/secondary. Even though owner/slave and primary/secondary are different concepts, the technical jargon makes the unfortunate reference the owner/slave meaning because of the use of the word "slave". It's difficult to defense the use of master/slave in this context. The master in the expert/apprentice concept could be called leader, expert, or teacher and no one would have a problem with that. This distinction is where people start getting upset. I'd argue most technical people didn't even give a second thought to master/slave and for them they never considered it to be anything other than primary/secondary because owner/slave is no longer common use and hasn't been for a while. Besides, US Civil War was more than 150 years ago! Who gives a shit? Well... people do because the effects of that war still affect our society and no one agrees on how to fix it. Removing problematic phrasing from our language as part of that makes sense. No one agrees on that either.
k__ 5y ago
For some of these words it's more about context. You can call your grandfather like you wish. You can also call stuff black.
- rory 5y ago
  Ironically, the context in which the linked post uses the word "master" is closer to the slavery-related usage than the git context of the word.

rory 5y ago

This one's a bit disturbing. Problem words: lower the bar Suggested Alternatives: simplify, inclusive, make more accessible

kbrannigan 5y ago

I am black but not from the USA I'm from the Caribbean. It's hilarious how people perceive those who look like me. Like we are some hyper-sensitive, fragile babies who cannot understand nuance of speech. It's even worse when some white Americans are afraid to joke around me or poke fun at me, because they don't want to punch down. Meanwhile I feel more privileged than most white Americans. I speak 3 languages perfectly. One favor a hiring manager did for me, was giving me a tougher interview than most other candidates. He made sure everyone knew I was hired because I'm good at my job, not because I'm a "diversity-hired to fill some quota". When I first moved here, I saw myself as a nerdy kid, who liked computers and wanted to build and create stuff. I saw myself as a human being who happened to look a certain way. I saw white people or Asian people just the same. Then I made the mistake of consuming "woke content" on reddit and Twitter and it affected me, after college those ideas limited me in ways I could only imagine. I really hope people see me as a bright kid whose into computers not some oppressed victim. By the way, racism and prejudice exists but they show up differently. Oh well!

cdcarter 5y ago
> Then I made the mistake of consuming "woke content" on reddit and Twitter and it affected me, after college those ideas limited me in ways I could only imagine. Can you share more about this experience?
- kbrannigan 5y ago
  The "woke content" just lumps everybody in one big pile, categorizes everyone in order to validate a theory: After living here for 15 years, I have realized the main narrative of the "black experience" "what is means to be black" is very Anglo-US-centric. In college, I met a Jamaican guy, the culture shock was just as intense as when I met that girl from mongolia. Totally different cultures and customs. But on paper, in the USA , Me and that Jamaican guy were just Black. I had more in common with the White French exchange student than with the Black-American kid from Virginia. To me: that black American kid and a white American kid were the same. From an academical, political standpoint, Black has become synonymous with "African-American" Not just any "African-American", poor disenfranchised black Americans who are likely from the "ghetto". White means: some mean monster , who are controlling the world and are out to get everybody. So naturally I started to second guess how people acted around me. Don't get me wrong racism is still alive and well I have experienced it in various forms: * Prepaid for a meal at a fancy restaurant, the people before me just gave a name and grabbed their food, I was asked to show a receipt. * Jogging in my neighborhood and having the police follow me around, almost like clockwork can't be a coincidence. (They became cool once they learned I lived there). * Going out with my white coworkers in casual clothing vs going out with my siblings in casual clothing we have to dress extra fancy to get treated the same, otherwise we get poor service - The black guilt to tip extra at restaurants) But: Most of the white people I've met were amazing, great people. That mean guy, is probably a jerk to everyone and just happens to be white. There needs to be a balance, raise awareness about issues of society, but don't go to the extreme. In my language: "The sky is blue, he is about to rain. I need to move my car otherwise she will get flooded"

pizzaknife 5y ago

i never knew this - thank you for the link quote from the link: Definition: A “cakewalk” is an easy victory or task. “Takes the cake” means to win the prize or to rank first. Why it’s problematic: The cakewalk was a pre-Civil War dance performed by enslaved people, and the winner of which would be given a cake. This is the original source for the phrases “takes the cake” and “cakewalk.” Because of this history, this word and phrase should be avoided.

swagasaurus-rex 5y ago

By not saying these words, how are we helping minorities? Can somebody please be clear on how ACTUAL PROBLEMS suffered by the disavantaged are solved by wordplay? Words don't cure poverty. Words don't reverse socioeconomic trends. Words don't give opportunity, cure abuses, change what our ancestors went through. To me it looks very much like signalling, with no real effort.

ask_b123 5y ago

Why is black box included? My first introduction to the term was in the first chapter of SICP and it speaks positively about abstraction. Also, I'm still not sure why cultural appropriation is actually considered bad. Anecdata for sure, but I remember one time my cousin (who is of my same culture) excitedly tell us about how in another country (in another continent), a singer from our country was quite famous and they listened to his songs and even sometimes wore clothing from our country. It seems like our cuisine is popular there too. And all of us thought it was very cool!

pmarreck 5y ago

Is it frowned upon yet to describe something that may be deeply interesting to a niche as "porn" of it? (Like a pro-ZFS article being "BSD porn")