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How do mobile carriers know video resolution over HTTPS connections? https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/172212/how-do-mobile-carriers-know-video-reso

How do mobile carriers know video resolution over HTTPS connections? https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/172212/how-do-mobile-carriers-know-video-resolution-over-https-connections https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/172212/how-do-m...

lelandfe 5y ago
Tl;dr streaming video protocols often have unique traffic shapes, and you can also make reasonable guesses as to the resolution of the served video. After that, the provider simply throttles bandwidth of the connection. What a great post.
- unfocussed_mike 5y ago
  You learn something new every day... ace.
betterunix2 5y ago
They do not know, but they also do not need to know. Technically they are not limiting resolution, they are limiting throughput on their network; the streaming service will reduce the resolution to avoid long lag/loading times for users.
bluedino 5y ago
> Verizon doesn't LITERALLY recognize and block encrypted HD video... but it has agreements with services like Netflix and Youtube that require THEM to recognize Verizon IP address ranges & respect any limits imposed by Verizon. This is an interesting 'answer', but how would 'tiered' unlimited plans work if it was handled by the streaming service and not the ISP? Some allow unlimited 480 while the higher priced plans allow unlimited HD.
- exikyut 5y ago
  I can only echo the sole comment under that answer: > Do you have a reference/proof for the first paragraph about agreements? --- IMHO, I find this hard to believe myself. The team(s) in charge of implementing this functionality likely don't have the requisite high level of lateral coordination necessary to facilitate agreements with all the major streaming services. Practically speaking, I see this sort of thing as balancing 1) total network saturation/hard capacity limits 2) encouraging user base to use more data up to thresholds in (1) 3) customer experience (wrt data overages) likely in that order. This functionality isn't a first-class user-facing "generate piles of money"-center; it describes limitations and conservatism and risk balance. It isn't a "pedal to the floor" sort of subject, but more of a continuous optimization concern. I don't really see telcos going to all the streaming services and working out agreements given this sort of status quo/sentiment. It's more the sort of thing that is kept internal. And then of course there's the fact that this would be playing out for every telco relative to every streaming service. At that point everyone would just throw their hands up in the air and make a global standard for cooperative ratelimiting, and we'd all know about it. For the first few years it would be obscure and you'd have to google the terms a few times to correctly identify it, and then someone would put a 43% quality JPEG screenshot of the documentation on facebook and it would go viral and get linked to 5G causing cancer or whatnot. It's just IP ratelimiting.
  - Bedon292 5y ago
    Many ISPs do have peering agreements with Netflix[1] and the like. So they may be they are able to shape the traffic that way as well. All your Netflix traffic is going through that connection, so even if its not on Netflix side your ISP knows to throttle to the bandwidth that will get the resolution they want you to have. [1] https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/ https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/
- wongarsu 5y ago
  The ISP could use different IP ranges for the different tiers, and just communicate those ranges to the streaming providers they have agreements with.
  - JoshTriplett 5y ago
    They could also handle this by routing packets from different customer tiers to different hosts that all handle the same TLS hostname. Or, even, to different interfaces on the same Netflix CDN box they have sitting in a local rack caching everything. That wouldn't break TLS, because all of those hosts work as a TLS endpoint for the same host.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Why would netflix and youtube agree to that? What's in it for them? The way it's described seems like Verizon has no recourse if they just refuse to sign such an agreement with Verizon.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Streaming providers are happy for low resolution because they can also reduce bandwidth?.
    - missedthecue 5y ago
      At the expense of annoyed customers.
      - warrenm 5y ago
        Meh - when it's "free", the customers are less "annoyed" And if you're viewing on your phone, you probably can't tell much of a difference between 480 and 1080 (it's there, but for most things is totally unimportant on such a small screen)
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  If there is net neutrality Verizon has no way to force streaming companies into this kind of contract, except perhaps by paying them to provide worse service.
exikyut 5y ago
The top-rated answer there is IMHO an excellent response to OP's question.
- akouri 5y ago
  Yes, it is

lelandfe 5y ago

Tl;dr streaming video protocols often have unique traffic shapes, and you can also make reasonable guesses as to the resolution of the served video. After that, the provider simply throttles bandwidth of the connection. What a great post.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
You learn something new every day... ace.

betterunix2 5y ago

They do not know, but they also do not need to know. Technically they are not limiting resolution, they are limiting throughput on their network; the streaming service will reduce the resolution to avoid long lag/loading times for users.

bluedino 5y ago

> Verizon doesn't LITERALLY recognize and block encrypted HD video... but it has agreements with services like Netflix and Youtube that require THEM to recognize Verizon IP address ranges & respect any limits imposed by Verizon. This is an interesting 'answer', but how would 'tiered' unlimited plans work if it was handled by the streaming service and not the ISP? Some allow unlimited 480 while the higher priced plans allow unlimited HD.

exikyut 5y ago
I can only echo the sole comment under that answer: > Do you have a reference/proof for the first paragraph about agreements? --- IMHO, I find this hard to believe myself. The team(s) in charge of implementing this functionality likely don't have the requisite high level of lateral coordination necessary to facilitate agreements with all the major streaming services. Practically speaking, I see this sort of thing as balancing 1) total network saturation/hard capacity limits 2) encouraging user base to use more data up to thresholds in (1) 3) customer experience (wrt data overages) likely in that order. This functionality isn't a first-class user-facing "generate piles of money"-center; it describes limitations and conservatism and risk balance. It isn't a "pedal to the floor" sort of subject, but more of a continuous optimization concern. I don't really see telcos going to all the streaming services and working out agreements given this sort of status quo/sentiment. It's more the sort of thing that is kept internal. And then of course there's the fact that this would be playing out for every telco relative to every streaming service. At that point everyone would just throw their hands up in the air and make a global standard for cooperative ratelimiting, and we'd all know about it. For the first few years it would be obscure and you'd have to google the terms a few times to correctly identify it, and then someone would put a 43% quality JPEG screenshot of the documentation on facebook and it would go viral and get linked to 5G causing cancer or whatnot. It's just IP ratelimiting.
- Bedon292 5y ago
  Many ISPs do have peering agreements with Netflix[1] and the like. So they may be they are able to shape the traffic that way as well. All your Netflix traffic is going through that connection, so even if its not on Netflix side your ISP knows to throttle to the bandwidth that will get the resolution they want you to have. [1] https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/ https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/
wongarsu 5y ago
The ISP could use different IP ranges for the different tiers, and just communicate those ranges to the streaming providers they have agreements with.
- JoshTriplett 5y ago
  They could also handle this by routing packets from different customer tiers to different hosts that all handle the same TLS hostname. Or, even, to different interfaces on the same Netflix CDN box they have sitting in a local rack caching everything. That wouldn't break TLS, because all of those hosts work as a TLS endpoint for the same host.
missedthecue 5y ago
Why would netflix and youtube agree to that? What's in it for them? The way it's described seems like Verizon has no recourse if they just refuse to sign such an agreement with Verizon.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Streaming providers are happy for low resolution because they can also reduce bandwidth?.
  - missedthecue 5y ago
    At the expense of annoyed customers.
    - warrenm 5y ago
      Meh - when it's "free", the customers are less "annoyed" And if you're viewing on your phone, you probably can't tell much of a difference between 480 and 1080 (it's there, but for most things is totally unimportant on such a small screen)
tinus_hn 5y ago
If there is net neutrality Verizon has no way to force streaming companies into this kind of contract, except perhaps by paying them to provide worse service.

exikyut 5y ago

The top-rated answer there is IMHO an excellent response to OP's question.

akouri 5y ago
Yes, it is