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Is tech/computer science the only STEM field that had boot camps? medicine, nursing, electrical engineering, civil engineering, physics, biology, environmental

Is tech/computer science the only STEM field that had boot camps? medicine, nursing, electrical engineering, civil engineering, physics, biology, environmental science, etc. Going through a list of stem fields in my mind, I can't think of any other fields that have boot camps. My buddy went to hairdresser school and it was longer than a lot of technology boot camps. Just feels unusual that in the industry, a 2-month boot camp competes with a 4-year computer science degree.

dominotw 5y ago
> a 2-month boot camp competes with a 4-year computer science degree. i have a whole bunch of friends who were sold this dream of six figure job after a short bootcamp. Almost none of them work in tech/coding now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  Seriously? Is the boot camp predatory or were these people just doing it for the money and realized they didn't like the work? I like boot camps as an opportunity for Junior Devs to break in but seems like they can prey on people looking for an easy payday.
pjmlp 5y ago
It really doesn't, but those selling those boot camps sell the dream it does it. I did technical school before university, which are the last 3 high school years in Portugal (10 - 12, from 12), as alternative to go to the university, just in case I would fail the national admission exams. Yet after those three years there was so much to learn, how come a 2 month bootcamp teach anything beyond basic programming knowledge.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  I feel the same way. I like the idea of boot camps giving opportunities to junior Devs to break into the industry but to sell them as equivalent to a CS degree and claim 2 months leads to a 6 figure payday seems like it leads to dysfunction.
emidln 5y ago
Several fields have tiered roles where bootcamps/community college programs are used to fill some of the roles. Several of these are now considered trades jobs, like electronics repair or certified nursing assistant. Depending on the regulations there might or might not be a path from community college program to an advanced role in the field without a college degree. In most of the world, you can't go from a CNA to an RN (Registered Nurse) or an MD with just experience.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  I wonder how much of those roadblocks are there due to lobbying and gatekeeping to keep salaries high and not actual safety requirements.
SteveDR 5y ago
> Is tech/computer science the only STEM field that had boot camps? medicine, nursing, electrical engineering, civil engineering, physics, biology, environmental science, etc. In the US, careers in those fields requires certification and IT does not. Probably because 1) the field exploded in popularity before anyone could formalize a certification process and 2) bad developers aren’t as dangerous to society as bad surgeons, bad nuclear physicists, bad civil engineers, etc. Also IT’s labor gap is especially extreme. I think it takes less knowledge/training to be helpful to a company when they desperately need workers with computer skills.
- GabrielBen 5y ago
  I think its not about danger, but about the general libertarian-ness of developers as a whole, specially the internet. Some countries have tried to put degree requirements for software engineers, but developers are not union-friendly or certification-advocating.
lelandfe 5y ago
There are vocational nursing programs that are accelerated to just a few semesters. I think that’s about as close as it gets to a fast program that gets you to employable status.
ebiester 5y ago
It doesn't. However, a 2 month boot camp as a finishing school on top of other self-study and auxillary skills does. For example, a great front end engineer I know had an art degree and a boot camp experience, combined with self study. She went to work with an agency, then moved into product engineering, and is a fantastic coder today. I think 2 months is too short for the vast majority of people, even in addition to another degree. However, I think a dedicated degree is also not necessary.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  > I think 2 months is too short for the vast majority of people, even in addition to another degree. However, I think a dedicated degree is also not necessary. Completely agree. I wish there was some sort of designated career path for people with clearly defined milestones.
namelessoracle 5y ago
The key difference is those fields have pretty clear and strict breakdowns of what different people will be doing. Medicine is a great example. Nurses have 4 different levels that vary from a boot camp equivalent of training (CNA) to requiring an advanced masters degree. (advanced practice registered nurse). Doctors have specific specialities that take more or less time to earn and pay different amounts. Electrical engineering has Electricians (and even in Electricians, you have a breakdown of apprentices, journeymen and masters) but it also has Electrical Engineers. Biology has lab assistants and lab technicians, it also had people with Doctorates working a lab. Theres also levels of certification and training that depends on if you are doing Forensics, medicine, research et cetra. Looking at computer science. It's all just engineers/developers. A company need something built and finds out they really needed someone with a bootcamp level of training and not the Masters Degree in Computer Science. But they have one "Software Engineer" track at their company and they pay them both the same. The guy/girl is a wizard at SQL optimization gets written up because they get moved to a team that requires them to grind out React code. Some places do have different tracks for different types of devs, but it seems like for a lot of places they have been consolidating their roles, not creating more role diversity. The reason for that is that when your boot camp React dev finds themselves on a non happy path, they can get hard stuck and a "higher" level of dev has to intervene and help, so the company figures it makes sense to go ahead and just get the higher level of dev that can handle it when things DO come up. Isn't that the meme about Google? That lots of their devs are just doing configuration tweaks but getting huge salaries? I would imagine Google does that so when there IS a problem those people presumably are equipped to go outside their comfort zone and be able to handle it.
jimmaswell 5y ago
There is a boot camp if you want to be an Army medic

dominotw 5y ago

> a 2-month boot camp competes with a 4-year computer science degree. i have a whole bunch of friends who were sold this dream of six figure job after a short bootcamp. Almost none of them work in tech/coding now.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
edmcnulty101 5y ago
Seriously? Is the boot camp predatory or were these people just doing it for the money and realized they didn't like the work? I like boot camps as an opportunity for Junior Devs to break in but seems like they can prey on people looking for an easy payday.

pjmlp 5y ago

It really doesn't, but those selling those boot camps sell the dream it does it. I did technical school before university, which are the last 3 high school years in Portugal (10 - 12, from 12), as alternative to go to the university, just in case I would fail the national admission exams. Yet after those three years there was so much to learn, how come a 2 month bootcamp teach anything beyond basic programming knowledge.

edmcnulty101 5y ago
I feel the same way. I like the idea of boot camps giving opportunities to junior Devs to break into the industry but to sell them as equivalent to a CS degree and claim 2 months leads to a 6 figure payday seems like it leads to dysfunction.

emidln 5y ago

Several fields have tiered roles where bootcamps/community college programs are used to fill some of the roles. Several of these are now considered trades jobs, like electronics repair or certified nursing assistant. Depending on the regulations there might or might not be a path from community college program to an advanced role in the field without a college degree. In most of the world, you can't go from a CNA to an RN (Registered Nurse) or an MD with just experience.

edmcnulty101 5y ago
I wonder how much of those roadblocks are there due to lobbying and gatekeeping to keep salaries high and not actual safety requirements.

SteveDR 5y ago

> Is tech/computer science the only STEM field that had boot camps? medicine, nursing, electrical engineering, civil engineering, physics, biology, environmental science, etc. In the US, careers in those fields requires certification and IT does not. Probably because 1) the field exploded in popularity before anyone could formalize a certification process and 2) bad developers aren’t as dangerous to society as bad surgeons, bad nuclear physicists, bad civil engineers, etc. Also IT’s labor gap is especially extreme. I think it takes less knowledge/training to be helpful to a company when they desperately need workers with computer skills.

GabrielBen 5y ago
I think its not about danger, but about the general libertarian-ness of developers as a whole, specially the internet. Some countries have tried to put degree requirements for software engineers, but developers are not union-friendly or certification-advocating.

lelandfe 5y ago

There are vocational nursing programs that are accelerated to just a few semesters. I think that’s about as close as it gets to a fast program that gets you to employable status.

ebiester 5y ago

It doesn't. However, a 2 month boot camp as a finishing school on top of other self-study and auxillary skills does. For example, a great front end engineer I know had an art degree and a boot camp experience, combined with self study. She went to work with an agency, then moved into product engineering, and is a fantastic coder today. I think 2 months is too short for the vast majority of people, even in addition to another degree. However, I think a dedicated degree is also not necessary.

edmcnulty101 5y ago
> I think 2 months is too short for the vast majority of people, even in addition to another degree. However, I think a dedicated degree is also not necessary. Completely agree. I wish there was some sort of designated career path for people with clearly defined milestones.

namelessoracle 5y ago

The key difference is those fields have pretty clear and strict breakdowns of what different people will be doing. Medicine is a great example. Nurses have 4 different levels that vary from a boot camp equivalent of training (CNA) to requiring an advanced masters degree. (advanced practice registered nurse). Doctors have specific specialities that take more or less time to earn and pay different amounts. Electrical engineering has Electricians (and even in Electricians, you have a breakdown of apprentices, journeymen and masters) but it also has Electrical Engineers. Biology has lab assistants and lab technicians, it also had people with Doctorates working a lab. Theres also levels of certification and training that depends on if you are doing Forensics, medicine, research et cetra. Looking at computer science. It's all just engineers/developers. A company need something built and finds out they really needed someone with a bootcamp level of training and not the Masters Degree in Computer Science. But they have one "Software Engineer" track at their company and they pay them both the same. The guy/girl is a wizard at SQL optimization gets written up because they get moved to a team that requires them to grind out React code. Some places do have different tracks for different types of devs, but it seems like for a lot of places they have been consolidating their roles, not creating more role diversity. The reason for that is that when your boot camp React dev finds themselves on a non happy path, they can get hard stuck and a "higher" level of dev has to intervene and help, so the company figures it makes sense to go ahead and just get the higher level of dev that can handle it when things DO come up. Isn't that the meme about Google? That lots of their devs are just doing configuration tweaks but getting huge salaries? I would imagine Google does that so when there IS a problem those people presumably are equipped to go outside their comfort zone and be able to handle it.

jimmaswell 5y ago

There is a boot camp if you want to be an Army medic