8 ms·

>But unless you’re trying to create a cryptocurrency, buy drugs or blackmail a company using ransomware there aren’t really any sensible use cases for a blockch

>But unless you’re trying to create a cryptocurrency, buy drugs or blackmail a company using ransomware there aren’t really any sensible use cases for a blockchain God bless this fella. I bought tesla stock futures in a country that wouldn't allow it via blockchain. I reduced a portion of my ecommerce store checkout fees to <1% by using a crypto payment processor > stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. Ps: [should i redact the word 'stripe' on here to avoid shadowbanning?] etc.

mchusma 5y ago
Can you say more about the crypto payments you use? I was under the impression that crypto payments had a very high transaction cost so am curious about your setup.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Bitcoin and Ethereum Mainnet can have high transaction fees. Virtually nothing else has fees even close to that high, however
  - phasnox 5y ago
    Even bitcoin on-chain no longer has those high fees it had in 2017. Also, Bitcoin has lightning now. A second layer protocol that allows fast and cheap payments. Like less of a penny cheap.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      Lightning has very little adoption, is hard to use because 1. you need to always be online to receive transactions and 2. routing is failure-prone, and costly in capital lock up - in an internet-connected hot-wallet no less - for payment channel collateral requirements. Ethereum Rollups are much more promising L2 solutions.
      - Melting_Harps 5y ago
        > Ethereum Rollups are much more promising L2 solutions. Your biases are blatant for all to see. But misinforming people to serve your interests is really uncalled for. > Lightning has very little adoption, is hard to use because 1. you need to always be online to receive transactions and 2. routing is failure-prone, and costly in capital lock up - in an internet-connected hot-wallet no less - for payment channel collateral requirements. Actually, Square via CASH App just enabled LN tx on it app to both iOS and Android users; so if you want to play the numbers game that is a significant onboarding--perhaps the largest in the entire ecosystem to date. With that said, you don't have to run a node to take advantage of low tx fees: DL Muun wallet and you now have the ability to receive funds from both mianchain and LN without running a node. FYI: Mempool on BTC mainnet is is clearing 1 sat/byte transactions (approx 5 cents.)
        jazzyjackson 5y ago
        Question about LN, if I have funds in a Muun wallet, can I send to a friend with a CASH app wallet? The language makes it sound like we have to be on the same "payment channel" so I would guess the answer is no. But then how are retail checkouts meant to work, should a retailer set themselves up with a muun wallet as well, or is there a way for LN channels to interact? I've been curious to try these things out for myself but I don't feel like I understand Muun wallet enough (as far as trusting myself not to screw it up)
        Melting_Harps 5y ago
        > Question about LN, if I have funds in a Muun wallet, can I send to a friend with a CASH app wallet? The language makes it sound like we have to be on the same "payment channel" so I would guess the answer is no. But then how are retail checkouts meant to work, should a retailer set themselves up with a muun wallet as well, or is there a way for LN channels to interact? Yes, I just tried it: this is what I did and it was all pretty seamless. - I sent out a desired amount to my muun wallet using a LN invoice from my CASH wallet and it was received instantly for no fees. - Once in my Muun wallet I sent it back to my CASH app bitcoin wallet using a Segwit address, as you cannot currently create a LN invoice within CASH. So, it seems that while CASH supports LN it is only for withdraws and not deposits; this could possibly be added later as a feature by the CASH team, though. But as of now, only Segwit layer 1 address deposits are available to a CASH wallet. Still, I paid ~7 cents with a 1sat/byte tx and it arrived in the next block since the mempool is clear using a segwit address. If a retailer wants to take payments via BTC and LN they have two choices: use custodial wallets like Muun that support both Layer 1 and 2 protocols and move to a secure wallet where they hold the keys. Or invest in running their own nodes and a deploy a system that works for them.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    But everyone still has to go through the steps of getting their money on to those alternate chains, which isn’t free. All of the transaction costs and exchange fees leading up to the checkout transaction and when the vendor later gets their money back out of the cryptocurrency are still expensive. The only way vendors come out net ahead by using cryptocurrency is if it affords them some additional protections at the expense of the customer. For example, forcing customers to eat the transaction costs and exchange fees, eliminating the possibility of chargebacks if the product or service is bad, and so on. Or more simply, they use cryptocurrency to dodge taxes. Or try to, anyway.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      I'm only aware of Dharma wallet, but I'm sure there are others - allows direct & free(well, except MATIC for gas I suppose) deposits from your fiat accounts onto Polygon, an Ethereum L2.
      - cuteboy19 5y ago
        Deposits being free makes sense, they want your money after all. The question is, are withdrawals free?
      - SubiculumCode 5y ago
        and the matic gas is cheap as hell...sub penny
    - immibis 5y ago
      Your exchange should support the alternate chains. They get economies of scale with the gas fees when bridging between chains. Of course, relying on an exchange for this contradicts the decentralization ideal.
  - serverholic 5y ago
    Ethereum transactions are moving to layer 2 which is a lot cheaper. Right now some layer 2 providers are as cheap as $0.15 and getting cheaper on a regular basis.
    - antihero 5y ago
      Is this the WETH thing?
      - serverholic 5y ago
        I assume you're referring to the hack? No that was a cross-chain bridge that got hacked. I would never trust those anyways. L2's are Ethereum's official scaling solution (along with sharding).
        immibis 5y ago
        Cross-chain bridges are how you get your coins onto a L2.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      Polygon(ETH L2) has sub-$0.01 tx fees, fwiw.
      - serverholic 5y ago
        Polygon is a sidechain and isn't what most would consider an L2 these days. They do have L2 rollups in the works like Polygon Hermez which has $0.25 transaction fee right now.
auggierose 5y ago
Which crypto payment processor is that? How do users interface with it, can they use their debit/credit cards in your store?
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> I reduced a portion of my ecommerce store checkout fees to <1% by using a crypto payment processor > stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. This is misleading because it moves all of the costs to other transactions: Your users have to get their money into exchanges (credit card fees occur here if using a card), buy the cryptocurrency (exchange fees), transfer it to you (transaction fees), and then you need to transfer the cryptocurrency somewhere else (more transaction fees), and exchange it back to another currency (more exchange fees). Then you have to account for exchange rates, which fluctuate constantly. If I need to buy something for $100 from your store, I need to buy at least $101-$102 of cryptocurrency in case the exchange rate slips while I’m going through all of the above steps. That extra $1-$2 floats around in my wallet forever if you’re using some obscure cryptocurrency that I’m not going to use again any time soon. At best, I now have yet another account to maintain and track and do math on whenever I need to buy something. It ends up being far, far more expensive than Stripe’s checkout payments. It’s just misleading because the expenses are spread out across so many different touch points.
- serverholic 5y ago
  This is a misleading comment. If I have euros and I need dollars then obviously I have to exchange them. If we're talking about currency then we generally assume we can skip that part. Additionally, ethereum fees are pretty reasonable for layer2 and getting cheaper on a regular basis. Right now on the order of $0.15 per transaction. That could get 10-100x cheaper with some tech on the roadmap. So I think it'll end up cheaper than stripe.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > If we're talking about currency then we generally assume we can skip that part. We’re talking about cryptocurrency, which comes in thousands of different flavors. 99.99% of the population doesn’t receive their paycheck in cryptocurrency, so the exchange rate is happening one way or another. Ignoring the exchange rate and pretending everyone always happens to have the exact cryptocurrency that a store wants is misleading. > Additionally, ethereum fees are pretty reasonable for layer2 Which would be great, but again you’re assuming that the stars have aligned and everyone is already using the exact cryptocurrency system you have in mind from end to end. In practice, they’re not, and they still need to incur exchange and transaction fees to get to that point. The fees are incurred one way or another. You can’t honestly expect us to pretend that everyone already has everything in cryptocurrency and everyone is already using the exact wallets and systems as each other. Reality is entirely different than the hypothetically optimal scenario.
xyzzy_plugh 5y ago
> stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. You clearly don't understand what the 3% is for. For one, I don't have any crypto, so I can't use your payment processor. My American Express card which charges a 3.5% processing fee is actually subsidized here. How does your crypto payment processor handle chargebacks? Does help protect you from fraud? Do they protect your customers if you act fraudulently?
- pooper 5y ago
  Before I begin I know nothing about pos or crypto so, to quote margin call, please, speak as you might to a young child, or a golden retriever When I need to send my sister who has a bank account with the same bank that I have an account with, I can zelle her within minutes. I've done this once every month for the last year. In the beginning, it told me that it takes "a few days" to send amounts over USD 500 (my amount is USD 2,000). However, recently I have noticed that it says "a few minutes" for my request. There is no cost associated with it. Assuming there is zero fraud protection, zero liability, zero anything for the transaction, is it possible to send and receive payments for free, at no cost, using any block chain technology? If yes, how can we get there? If not, why not?
  - antihero 5y ago
    Wait until you’ve experienced the bliss of UK FPS. It’s completely free for consumers, and so fast that if I transfer money between two banks with push notifications for tx, I often get the receive notification before the sent one.
    - conanbatt 5y ago
      Ofc its more efficient, but its not censorship resistant..
      - cuteboy19 5y ago
        Which you don't really need unless you are operating something like ransomware.
leshow 5y ago
It regularly costs 50-100+ USD to send a transaction with popular coins, how is that reducing fees for anyone?
long_time_gone 5y ago
> I reduced a portion of my ecommerce store checkout fees to <1% by using a crypto payment processor > stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. Maybe the fees are worth it for currency stability? Saving 2% doesn't help much if the price of crypto plunges 10% the next day.
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Stablecoins rarely plunge 10% in a day ;)
- saurik 5y ago
  This is a solved problem (and not just in theory): transfer a stable coin (such as DAI).
  - long_time_gone 5y ago
    This is my issue with much of the crypto movement. The answer to all questions seems to be re-creating existing infrastructure (in this case, we are trying to recreate the price of USD). The promise of crypto was a world without this type of centralization and institutionalization. As it's grown in popularity, it appears to be re-creating all the existing centralization. Even wall street market-makers like Citadel are getting into the game [1]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/citadel-securities-silicon-valley-funding-hints-at-crypto-entry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/citadel-s...
    - saurik 5y ago
      I hope you appreciate how disingenuous this complaint is :(. If you want to not be tied to USD, crypto clearly does that. But someone complained that they didn't like having something that wasn't tied to USD. So crypto also solves that: DAI is a decentralized stable coin, using tons of economic incentive tricks to build something tied to USD. You don't have to use it, but that person clearly wanted something tied to USD. Meanwhile, the banking infrastructure you all seem to love so much continues to not be programmable, continues to have multi-day settlement delays even between your own accounts (that it takes multiple days to pay off my credit card is insane), and continues to be actively exploitative of people with lots of regressive fees with built-in traps that regularly screw over the most vulnerable of people. But somehow that is all ignorable when people want to complain about crypto. Can't crypto just solve a problem for someone and we can be happy for that? Does it really have to be better at everything at once? This person said they were getting cheaper transfers: they were paying 1% instead of 3%. Isn't that good? Why is it somehow broken if it is done with a stable coin? If these banks you love so much are so smart, why is this person so happy using crypto? Put elsewise: why are they wrong for using crypto? This is like someone saying "I love sandwiches: they let me hold my food while I am on the go" and someone with a sour face responding "I guess if you like unhealthy heavy food! I love my salads". And I say "they do make vegetable sandwiches: they are healthy and holdable!" and being pushed back with "this is the problem I have with this new sandwich movement: they are attempting to recreate everything from salads". I mean, come on :/. If your salads are so good, why can't I hold them? Oh right, because sometimes I need a sandwich.
tintan 5y ago
I bought a diamond last week for $25000. Turns out it was a fraud company. Within a week I got all my money back. That is what the 3% gives you. With blockchain there is no fraud protection and all transactions are irreversible. In the crypto world steal 250 million dollars in hack attach and not a single thing anyone can do. This is an inferior model in every single definition of the word.
- echelon 5y ago
  How did you find out it was a fraud company?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ghostwriter 5y ago
  > This is an inferior model in every single definition of the word. yeah, try to convince a highstreet bank to return you your money when it thinks otherwise [1] [2] [3] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/aqxz5n/hsbc_has_frozen_our_bank_accounts_leaving_me_my/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/aqxz5n/h... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/l4tps5/hsbc_closed_my_account_and_i_will_be_in_trouble/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/l4tps5/h... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/cbpxit/hsbc_blocked_account_due_to_fraud_but_unsure_what/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/cbpxit/h...
  - wutwut5521 5y ago
    Ever try to convince an exchange or hosted wallet to give you back your money when it thinks otherwise?
    - ghostwriter 5y ago
      the good news is that I don't need to rely on third-parties to securely host and manage my wallets. It still is an option, but not a hard requirement to access global financial transactions.
valdiorn 5y ago
You bought Tesla futures, which, according to you, is not allowed in your country, using crypto and you think this shows how "good" it is? You've literally just given anecdotal evidence of crypto being used to facilitate an illegal financial transaction. Buying Tesla futures might seem innocent but you realise that means other types of illegal finance shenanigans, like money laundering, are also facilitated by the same process. Bad actors can use it to bypass regulation just like you did.
- tmn 5y ago
  This just reduces to security vs freedom trade off. Just don’t assume your stated example here is interpreted as an obvious con by most people

mchusma 5y ago

Can you say more about the crypto payments you use? I was under the impression that crypto payments had a very high transaction cost so am curious about your setup.

knownjorbist 5y ago
Bitcoin and Ethereum Mainnet can have high transaction fees. Virtually nothing else has fees even close to that high, however
- phasnox 5y ago
  Even bitcoin on-chain no longer has those high fees it had in 2017. Also, Bitcoin has lightning now. A second layer protocol that allows fast and cheap payments. Like less of a penny cheap.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    Lightning has very little adoption, is hard to use because 1. you need to always be online to receive transactions and 2. routing is failure-prone, and costly in capital lock up - in an internet-connected hot-wallet no less - for payment channel collateral requirements. Ethereum Rollups are much more promising L2 solutions.
    - Melting_Harps 5y ago
      > Ethereum Rollups are much more promising L2 solutions. Your biases are blatant for all to see. But misinforming people to serve your interests is really uncalled for. > Lightning has very little adoption, is hard to use because 1. you need to always be online to receive transactions and 2. routing is failure-prone, and costly in capital lock up - in an internet-connected hot-wallet no less - for payment channel collateral requirements. Actually, Square via CASH App just enabled LN tx on it app to both iOS and Android users; so if you want to play the numbers game that is a significant onboarding--perhaps the largest in the entire ecosystem to date. With that said, you don't have to run a node to take advantage of low tx fees: DL Muun wallet and you now have the ability to receive funds from both mianchain and LN without running a node. FYI: Mempool on BTC mainnet is is clearing 1 sat/byte transactions (approx 5 cents.)
      - jazzyjackson 5y ago
        Question about LN, if I have funds in a Muun wallet, can I send to a friend with a CASH app wallet? The language makes it sound like we have to be on the same "payment channel" so I would guess the answer is no. But then how are retail checkouts meant to work, should a retailer set themselves up with a muun wallet as well, or is there a way for LN channels to interact? I've been curious to try these things out for myself but I don't feel like I understand Muun wallet enough (as far as trusting myself not to screw it up)
        Melting_Harps 5y ago
        > Question about LN, if I have funds in a Muun wallet, can I send to a friend with a CASH app wallet? The language makes it sound like we have to be on the same "payment channel" so I would guess the answer is no. But then how are retail checkouts meant to work, should a retailer set themselves up with a muun wallet as well, or is there a way for LN channels to interact? Yes, I just tried it: this is what I did and it was all pretty seamless. - I sent out a desired amount to my muun wallet using a LN invoice from my CASH wallet and it was received instantly for no fees. - Once in my Muun wallet I sent it back to my CASH app bitcoin wallet using a Segwit address, as you cannot currently create a LN invoice within CASH. So, it seems that while CASH supports LN it is only for withdraws and not deposits; this could possibly be added later as a feature by the CASH team, though. But as of now, only Segwit layer 1 address deposits are available to a CASH wallet. Still, I paid ~7 cents with a 1sat/byte tx and it arrived in the next block since the mempool is clear using a segwit address. If a retailer wants to take payments via BTC and LN they have two choices: use custodial wallets like Muun that support both Layer 1 and 2 protocols and move to a secure wallet where they hold the keys. Or invest in running their own nodes and a deploy a system that works for them.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  But everyone still has to go through the steps of getting their money on to those alternate chains, which isn’t free. All of the transaction costs and exchange fees leading up to the checkout transaction and when the vendor later gets their money back out of the cryptocurrency are still expensive. The only way vendors come out net ahead by using cryptocurrency is if it affords them some additional protections at the expense of the customer. For example, forcing customers to eat the transaction costs and exchange fees, eliminating the possibility of chargebacks if the product or service is bad, and so on. Or more simply, they use cryptocurrency to dodge taxes. Or try to, anyway.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    I'm only aware of Dharma wallet, but I'm sure there are others - allows direct & free(well, except MATIC for gas I suppose) deposits from your fiat accounts onto Polygon, an Ethereum L2.
    - cuteboy19 5y ago
      Deposits being free makes sense, they want your money after all. The question is, are withdrawals free?
    - SubiculumCode 5y ago
      and the matic gas is cheap as hell...sub penny
  - immibis 5y ago
    Your exchange should support the alternate chains. They get economies of scale with the gas fees when bridging between chains. Of course, relying on an exchange for this contradicts the decentralization ideal.
- serverholic 5y ago
  Ethereum transactions are moving to layer 2 which is a lot cheaper. Right now some layer 2 providers are as cheap as $0.15 and getting cheaper on a regular basis.
  - antihero 5y ago
    Is this the WETH thing?
    - serverholic 5y ago
      I assume you're referring to the hack? No that was a cross-chain bridge that got hacked. I would never trust those anyways. L2's are Ethereum's official scaling solution (along with sharding).
      - immibis 5y ago
        Cross-chain bridges are how you get your coins onto a L2.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    Polygon(ETH L2) has sub-$0.01 tx fees, fwiw.
    - serverholic 5y ago
      Polygon is a sidechain and isn't what most would consider an L2 these days. They do have L2 rollups in the works like Polygon Hermez which has $0.25 transaction fee right now.

auggierose 5y ago

Which crypto payment processor is that? How do users interface with it, can they use their debit/credit cards in your store?

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> I reduced a portion of my ecommerce store checkout fees to <1% by using a crypto payment processor > stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. This is misleading because it moves all of the costs to other transactions: Your users have to get their money into exchanges (credit card fees occur here if using a card), buy the cryptocurrency (exchange fees), transfer it to you (transaction fees), and then you need to transfer the cryptocurrency somewhere else (more transaction fees), and exchange it back to another currency (more exchange fees). Then you have to account for exchange rates, which fluctuate constantly. If I need to buy something for $100 from your store, I need to buy at least $101-$102 of cryptocurrency in case the exchange rate slips while I’m going through all of the above steps. That extra $1-$2 floats around in my wallet forever if you’re using some obscure cryptocurrency that I’m not going to use again any time soon. At best, I now have yet another account to maintain and track and do math on whenever I need to buy something. It ends up being far, far more expensive than Stripe’s checkout payments. It’s just misleading because the expenses are spread out across so many different touch points.

serverholic 5y ago
This is a misleading comment. If I have euros and I need dollars then obviously I have to exchange them. If we're talking about currency then we generally assume we can skip that part. Additionally, ethereum fees are pretty reasonable for layer2 and getting cheaper on a regular basis. Right now on the order of $0.15 per transaction. That could get 10-100x cheaper with some tech on the roadmap. So I think it'll end up cheaper than stripe.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > If we're talking about currency then we generally assume we can skip that part. We’re talking about cryptocurrency, which comes in thousands of different flavors. 99.99% of the population doesn’t receive their paycheck in cryptocurrency, so the exchange rate is happening one way or another. Ignoring the exchange rate and pretending everyone always happens to have the exact cryptocurrency that a store wants is misleading. > Additionally, ethereum fees are pretty reasonable for layer2 Which would be great, but again you’re assuming that the stars have aligned and everyone is already using the exact cryptocurrency system you have in mind from end to end. In practice, they’re not, and they still need to incur exchange and transaction fees to get to that point. The fees are incurred one way or another. You can’t honestly expect us to pretend that everyone already has everything in cryptocurrency and everyone is already using the exact wallets and systems as each other. Reality is entirely different than the hypothetically optimal scenario.

xyzzy_plugh 5y ago

> stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. You clearly don't understand what the 3% is for. For one, I don't have any crypto, so I can't use your payment processor. My American Express card which charges a 3.5% processing fee is actually subsidized here. How does your crypto payment processor handle chargebacks? Does help protect you from fraud? Do they protect your customers if you act fraudulently?

pooper 5y ago
Before I begin I know nothing about pos or crypto so, to quote margin call, please, speak as you might to a young child, or a golden retriever When I need to send my sister who has a bank account with the same bank that I have an account with, I can zelle her within minutes. I've done this once every month for the last year. In the beginning, it told me that it takes "a few days" to send amounts over USD 500 (my amount is USD 2,000). However, recently I have noticed that it says "a few minutes" for my request. There is no cost associated with it. Assuming there is zero fraud protection, zero liability, zero anything for the transaction, is it possible to send and receive payments for free, at no cost, using any block chain technology? If yes, how can we get there? If not, why not?
- antihero 5y ago
  Wait until you’ve experienced the bliss of UK FPS. It’s completely free for consumers, and so fast that if I transfer money between two banks with push notifications for tx, I often get the receive notification before the sent one.
  - conanbatt 5y ago
    Ofc its more efficient, but its not censorship resistant..
    - cuteboy19 5y ago
      Which you don't really need unless you are operating something like ransomware.

leshow 5y ago

It regularly costs 50-100+ USD to send a transaction with popular coins, how is that reducing fees for anyone?

long_time_gone 5y ago

> I reduced a portion of my ecommerce store checkout fees to <1% by using a crypto payment processor > stripe's highway robbery of 3% per sale. Maybe the fees are worth it for currency stability? Saving 2% doesn't help much if the price of crypto plunges 10% the next day.

pcthrowaway 5y ago
Stablecoins rarely plunge 10% in a day ;)
saurik 5y ago
This is a solved problem (and not just in theory): transfer a stable coin (such as DAI).
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  This is my issue with much of the crypto movement. The answer to all questions seems to be re-creating existing infrastructure (in this case, we are trying to recreate the price of USD). The promise of crypto was a world without this type of centralization and institutionalization. As it's grown in popularity, it appears to be re-creating all the existing centralization. Even wall street market-makers like Citadel are getting into the game [1]. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/citadel-securities-silicon-valley-funding-hints-at-crypto-entry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/citadel-s...
  - saurik 5y ago
    I hope you appreciate how disingenuous this complaint is :(. If you want to not be tied to USD, crypto clearly does that. But someone complained that they didn't like having something that wasn't tied to USD. So crypto also solves that: DAI is a decentralized stable coin, using tons of economic incentive tricks to build something tied to USD. You don't have to use it, but that person clearly wanted something tied to USD. Meanwhile, the banking infrastructure you all seem to love so much continues to not be programmable, continues to have multi-day settlement delays even between your own accounts (that it takes multiple days to pay off my credit card is insane), and continues to be actively exploitative of people with lots of regressive fees with built-in traps that regularly screw over the most vulnerable of people. But somehow that is all ignorable when people want to complain about crypto. Can't crypto just solve a problem for someone and we can be happy for that? Does it really have to be better at everything at once? This person said they were getting cheaper transfers: they were paying 1% instead of 3%. Isn't that good? Why is it somehow broken if it is done with a stable coin? If these banks you love so much are so smart, why is this person so happy using crypto? Put elsewise: why are they wrong for using crypto? This is like someone saying "I love sandwiches: they let me hold my food while I am on the go" and someone with a sour face responding "I guess if you like unhealthy heavy food! I love my salads". And I say "they do make vegetable sandwiches: they are healthy and holdable!" and being pushed back with "this is the problem I have with this new sandwich movement: they are attempting to recreate everything from salads". I mean, come on :/. If your salads are so good, why can't I hold them? Oh right, because sometimes I need a sandwich.

tintan 5y ago

I bought a diamond last week for $25000. Turns out it was a fraud company. Within a week I got all my money back. That is what the 3% gives you. With blockchain there is no fraud protection and all transactions are irreversible. In the crypto world steal 250 million dollars in hack attach and not a single thing anyone can do. This is an inferior model in every single definition of the word.

echelon 5y ago
How did you find out it was a fraud company?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ghostwriter 5y ago
> This is an inferior model in every single definition of the word. yeah, try to convince a highstreet bank to return you your money when it thinks otherwise [1] [2] [3] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/aqxz5n/hsbc_has_frozen_our_bank_accounts_leaving_me_my/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/aqxz5n/h... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/l4tps5/hsbc_closed_my_account_and_i_will_be_in_trouble/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/l4tps5/h... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/cbpxit/hsbc_blocked_account_due_to_fraud_but_unsure_what/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/cbpxit/h...
- wutwut5521 5y ago
  Ever try to convince an exchange or hosted wallet to give you back your money when it thinks otherwise?
  - ghostwriter 5y ago
    the good news is that I don't need to rely on third-parties to securely host and manage my wallets. It still is an option, but not a hard requirement to access global financial transactions.

valdiorn 5y ago

You bought Tesla futures, which, according to you, is not allowed in your country, using crypto and you think this shows how "good" it is? You've literally just given anecdotal evidence of crypto being used to facilitate an illegal financial transaction. Buying Tesla futures might seem innocent but you realise that means other types of illegal finance shenanigans, like money laundering, are also facilitated by the same process. Bad actors can use it to bypass regulation just like you did.

tmn 5y ago
This just reduces to security vs freedom trade off. Just don’t assume your stated example here is interpreted as an obvious con by most people