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I'd say the answer is still straightforward, at least in the example you gave. To me as a customer it doesn't matter if it's the store owner who is stocking the

I'd say the answer is still straightforward, at least in the example you gave. To me as a customer it doesn't matter if it's the store owner who is stocking the stands or if they rent them out. I walked in to your store, handed you my money and received the item from you. If you're not vetting the producers that's on you.

smokey_circles 5y ago
No, that's on you. There's no standard store operational model. Some are whole chains, others are just endpoints. The onus is on you to check your assumptions if they contain something important (like what you're expecting)
mrtksn 5y ago
See, it's kind of a trick question. I ask you to rate the shopping experience but you rate the product you bought. Out of nowhere, a really bad shop can have very good reviews because some customers really enjoy the Mars bars. There's really no mystery in the Podcasts app getting very good reviews, people really love the experience even if the app itself might not be that good. It's just like happy Tesco customers that enjoy their Pringles and not nerding over the store design. From customers perspective, the store design and the Pringles are not separate experiences.
- hapidjus 5y ago
  You were the one that brought up the product quality. But I'd argue that the quality of the product I went home with is part of the shopping experience. I'm not saying that that's how app reviews should work, just answering your question regarding where the blame should fall in your store example.
- mannykannot 5y ago
  > There's really no mystery... Precisely. The author of the article is certainly not mystified by what is happening, and no-one responding here seems to be so, either. You are not suggesting that the quality of the podcast and that of the app are inseparable issues, are you?
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    > You are not suggesting that the quality of the podcast and that of the app are inseparable issues, are you? I am, actually. The experience is the listening of the podcast, how that is produced and how that is delivered are technicalities that you cannot know without investigation or prior knowledge and that is useful only if you are looking into improving or duplicating the experience. So, it makes sense to me to rate the app based on the podcasts you listened as well us the UI experience. After all, that would be the experience of other people who are about to download the app.
    - mannykannot 5y ago
      You seem to be saying, not that you find the concerns inseparable, but that you are not being given the opportunity to separate the quality of the podcasts and that of the app in your rating - which is the point of the article.
      - mrtksn 5y ago
        I don't argue against the article.
        mannykannot 5y ago
        ...which does consider the quality of the podcast and that of the app to be separable issues.
        mrtksn 5y ago
        They are free to consider that. As I said, I don't seek to argue against the article or debunk it or anything like that. The basis of my argument is not the article as a whole, the article can have its hypothesis, I'm not interested.
- mkipper 5y ago
  I think the grocery analogy is a bit strained. I've never seen a grocery store review mention how good the non-store-brand potato chips or chocolate bars are. I _do_ see reviews regularly mentioning the quality of produce and meat, which stores do have some control over. I think most people who take the time to go to Yelp / Google Maps / whatever and leave a review are aware that they're reviewing the store and not their Mars bar. The experience using an app is completely different. Here's my dumb analogy. You're browsing the snack food aisle in the grocery store. You really want a Mars bar, so you pick one off the shelf and go to put in your basket. As you're picking it up, a voice asks you from the heavens: "How much do you like this?" How much do I like what? The grocery store? The Mars bar? Being asked the question at all? My guess is that most people leaving 5 star reviews for the Apple Podcasts app had a similar experience. If you just finished listening to a 2 hour podcast that you enjoyed and are greeted with a "rate your experience" pop-up after unlocking your phone, you might be inclined to select 5 stars without thinking about what you're actually rating. Is this some dark pattern from Apple added to pump up their app ratings? I have no idea. But I do think that the lines are very blurred, intentionally or not, in something like a podcast app. An app certainly _could_ mislead its users into leaving positive reviews.
notriddle 5y ago
By this kind of reasoning, web browsers should be held liable for the websites you visit in them.
- hapidjus 5y ago
  If they sold access to websites and made a cut from it, yes!
  - jtbayly 5y ago
    Does Apple sell access to podcasts now?
    - hapidjus 5y ago
      Yes? Maybe? I dont know. But thats how it was framed in the example given.
simonh 5y ago
It's all about brand power. With the podcasts app, Apple has the brand power not the podcasts, so Apple is who users associate the experience with. If you bought a Dyson vacuum at Target and it was rubbish, you wouldn't later go to a Walmart to buy a Dyson for your mum because you trust Walmart more than Target (ok, contrived example). However if you go to a store and buy generic products that turn out to be shoddy, you're likely to hold it against the store.

smokey_circles 5y ago

No, that's on you. There's no standard store operational model. Some are whole chains, others are just endpoints. The onus is on you to check your assumptions if they contain something important (like what you're expecting)

mrtksn 5y ago

See, it's kind of a trick question. I ask you to rate the shopping experience but you rate the product you bought. Out of nowhere, a really bad shop can have very good reviews because some customers really enjoy the Mars bars. There's really no mystery in the Podcasts app getting very good reviews, people really love the experience even if the app itself might not be that good. It's just like happy Tesco customers that enjoy their Pringles and not nerding over the store design. From customers perspective, the store design and the Pringles are not separate experiences.

hapidjus 5y ago
You were the one that brought up the product quality. But I'd argue that the quality of the product I went home with is part of the shopping experience. I'm not saying that that's how app reviews should work, just answering your question regarding where the blame should fall in your store example.
mannykannot 5y ago
> There's really no mystery... Precisely. The author of the article is certainly not mystified by what is happening, and no-one responding here seems to be so, either. You are not suggesting that the quality of the podcast and that of the app are inseparable issues, are you?
- mrtksn 5y ago
  > You are not suggesting that the quality of the podcast and that of the app are inseparable issues, are you? I am, actually. The experience is the listening of the podcast, how that is produced and how that is delivered are technicalities that you cannot know without investigation or prior knowledge and that is useful only if you are looking into improving or duplicating the experience. So, it makes sense to me to rate the app based on the podcasts you listened as well us the UI experience. After all, that would be the experience of other people who are about to download the app.
  - mannykannot 5y ago
    You seem to be saying, not that you find the concerns inseparable, but that you are not being given the opportunity to separate the quality of the podcasts and that of the app in your rating - which is the point of the article.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I don't argue against the article.
      - mannykannot 5y ago
        ...which does consider the quality of the podcast and that of the app to be separable issues.
        mrtksn 5y ago
        They are free to consider that. As I said, I don't seek to argue against the article or debunk it or anything like that. The basis of my argument is not the article as a whole, the article can have its hypothesis, I'm not interested.
mkipper 5y ago
I think the grocery analogy is a bit strained. I've never seen a grocery store review mention how good the non-store-brand potato chips or chocolate bars are. I _do_ see reviews regularly mentioning the quality of produce and meat, which stores do have some control over. I think most people who take the time to go to Yelp / Google Maps / whatever and leave a review are aware that they're reviewing the store and not their Mars bar. The experience using an app is completely different. Here's my dumb analogy. You're browsing the snack food aisle in the grocery store. You really want a Mars bar, so you pick one off the shelf and go to put in your basket. As you're picking it up, a voice asks you from the heavens: "How much do you like this?" How much do I like what? The grocery store? The Mars bar? Being asked the question at all? My guess is that most people leaving 5 star reviews for the Apple Podcasts app had a similar experience. If you just finished listening to a 2 hour podcast that you enjoyed and are greeted with a "rate your experience" pop-up after unlocking your phone, you might be inclined to select 5 stars without thinking about what you're actually rating. Is this some dark pattern from Apple added to pump up their app ratings? I have no idea. But I do think that the lines are very blurred, intentionally or not, in something like a podcast app. An app certainly _could_ mislead its users into leaving positive reviews.

notriddle 5y ago

By this kind of reasoning, web browsers should be held liable for the websites you visit in them.

hapidjus 5y ago
If they sold access to websites and made a cut from it, yes!
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Does Apple sell access to podcasts now?
  - hapidjus 5y ago
    Yes? Maybe? I dont know. But thats how it was framed in the example given.

simonh 5y ago

It's all about brand power. With the podcasts app, Apple has the brand power not the podcasts, so Apple is who users associate the experience with. If you bought a Dyson vacuum at Target and it was rubbish, you wouldn't later go to a Walmart to buy a Dyson for your mum because you trust Walmart more than Target (ok, contrived example). However if you go to a store and buy generic products that turn out to be shoddy, you're likely to hold it against the store.