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Alternate Take: - Bookmarking is not broken. Bookmarking works just fine. What's broken is what we want to do with the bookmarks once we have them. The p

Alternate Take: - Bookmarking is not broken. Bookmarking works just fine. What's broken is what we want to do with the bookmarks once we have them. The problem is we don't know exactly what that is. We tell ourselves that it's to "review it later", but that's not really it. It it were it would be simple to block out some time and do that, but we never actually do. We don't know why we really make those bookmarks. Bookmarking is not broken. We are.

brk 5y ago
You just clarified so many things for me.
NAHWheatCracker 5y ago
This is what I was thinking as well. I find bookmarks work just fine for me in Firefox. However, it only works well for the 10 bookmarks that I use weekly. If I bookmark anything and I don't use it soon after, it inevitably languishes. I have dozens of bookmarks from years ago for lectures I wanted to watch, tutorials I wanted to follow, games that I wanted to play, blog posts that I wanted to read. It was a list of things I wanted to be or do, but haven't taken the time. A bookmarking tool can't change whether I have follow through. It's a tool to keep track of things, but I have to spend the time.
throwamon 5y ago
For me I often feel it's a refusal to accept that life is short and I'll never have time to explore every single thing that has ever interested me in enough depth, and that no matter how much I learn and explore in the time I do have, I'll never be satisfied. So I keep on piling bookmarks on top of bookmarks and thus avoid having to choose what I will intently dedicate my time to. I gotta bookmark this comment and review it later. Keywords: digital gardening, data hoarding, Buddhism, hedonic treadmill.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  > For me I often feel it's a refusal to accept that life is short and I'll never have time to explore every single thing that has ever interested me in enough depth, and that no matter how much I learn and explore in the time I do have, I'll never be satisfied I love your comment and share your approach: my bookmarks are what will pop up if I search something before Bing tries to take me somewhere else. By bookmarking, I both accept that I do not have the time (not now or ever) and therefore I may never read this, unless serendipity or need drives me to type the exact same keywoard > I gotta bookmark this comment and review it later No, as that would be an attachment: instead, you should let this comment go :)
- lubujackson 5y ago
  There is an idea that might make you feel better - personal libraries (or bookmarks, in this case) shouldn't be just be a collection of books read but of books one would like to read or have on hand for future use. This change in perspective turns your library from a "failure of accomplishment" to a "curated resource for future enrichment".
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Second that. I don't keep it in my library unless it's classic (by my standards) or I want to read it in the future. Accessibility breeds opportunity.
TrailMixRaisin 5y ago
I think you describe the real problem here. For me I just skip the bookmarking part. If I want to come back to something later, I just leave the tab open. This was a good solution because 2-3 years ago there came an inevitable browser crash and all the open tabs were lost. If you could not remember them, they most likely are not that important. Unfortunately these hard resets do not occur any more. So I have to close the tabs that I find not that interesting after some days. But closing tabs is much easier than deleting old bookmarks. I assume this is, because you have not commited yourself that much.
- BeFlatXIII 5y ago
  Hello, fellow 100+ tab club member. How do you keep your tabs organized? I used Tree Style Tab plus an extension to aggressively unload background tabs. I wish there were a browser where a vertical tree of tabs was the default tan interface instead of a hack around an inferior horizontal bar of tabs.
  - TrailMixRaisin 5y ago
    Actually I do not use vertical trees because it forces me to select and close tabs once the get to small to have and text displayed on them.
  - michaelsalim 5y ago
    I used the same extension but now moved to https://github.com/mbnuqw/sidebery https://github.com/mbnuqw/sidebery. You can group tabs, set rules (like automatically move to group X if URL matches Y) and much more. Best of all, you can save a snapshot of your tabs to open in the future instead of relying on restoring previous session.
jasode 5y ago
>What's broken is what we want to do with the bookmarks once we have them. The problem is we don't know exactly what that is. [...] We don't know why we really make those bookmarks. I think a lot of us do know why we save bookmarks. I think your point depends on equating bookmarks with a "future todo reading list". (Similar concept: https://www.google.com/search?q=tsundoku https://www.google.com/search?q=tsundoku) But a more complete taxonomy of bookmarks: - (1) saved urls for often visted websites like weather, status pages, etc. This saves time from having to recreate the google searches that finally lead you to that url or you found a deep url that bypasses a bunch of clicks. - (2) an archival "memory" of urls you already read that may be referenced later. The bookmarks are not a "todo list" because the content has already been read. However, a future piece of information may make a connection back to some of them. The personal url archive acts as a more manageable subset of the entire web for reference. - (3) a future reading list. Bookmarks are an alternative to opening up 100 tabs on the browser to read later Most of my "bookmarks" are category (2) but I just save the urls in a text file instead of using a bookmark manager. For the really important references, I try to save as mhtml local files.
lewisjoe 5y ago
You are right. But the reason is not because we are broken. It is because our tools are not intelligent enough to compliment our tendency to forget. I didn't find a single bookmarking system that reminded me of links I wanted to read later. I wrote this as a manifesto - https://github.com/joelewis/readmelater https://github.com/joelewis/readmelater and later went on to build a version of that vision not because I wanted to beat that idea to death, but just to scratch my own itch.
inter_netuser 5y ago
Bookmarking is broken. We bookmark to find them later. Better would be to save the entire page, not just the URL, as that would likely have more keywords that you'll remember later. That's what I do, just save pages into a folder.
elefantastisch 5y ago
I want to be able to refer back to valuable writing I've read online. I read something once about effective use of multiple choice questions in a classroom setting. I'd like to be able to find it again. I want to be able to browse a curated collection of the web around some topic. I've come across a handful of really, really good tech blogs over the years. I'd like to be able to flip through them in one place. I'd like to be able to peruse my collection of in-browser games. I want to get faster access to sites I use often. This might be seeding the autocomplete algorithm in the address bar, some kind of launcher, etc. I don't know what form this would ideally take, but it's a use case I want for bookmarks.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  If you want to refer to it then just archive it yourself.
rchaud 5y ago
Agreed 100%. My bookmarking behaviour has changed massively in this respect over the past 15 years. I used to have a giant bookmarks folder but at some point it became easier to Google for the site first, for a number of reasons: 1) Link rot. I have bookmarks from as late as 2016, that 404 because the site is no longer hosted. 2) With smartphones, my browsing is split across PC and mobile, and I don't sync bookmarks across them (personal preference). This leads to more Google-first behaviour. 3) More and more stuff is getting bookmarked inside of apps. Reddit 'saves', Pinterest 'pins' and Twitter 'bookmarks'.

brk 5y ago

You just clarified so many things for me.

NAHWheatCracker 5y ago

This is what I was thinking as well. I find bookmarks work just fine for me in Firefox. However, it only works well for the 10 bookmarks that I use weekly. If I bookmark anything and I don't use it soon after, it inevitably languishes. I have dozens of bookmarks from years ago for lectures I wanted to watch, tutorials I wanted to follow, games that I wanted to play, blog posts that I wanted to read. It was a list of things I wanted to be or do, but haven't taken the time. A bookmarking tool can't change whether I have follow through. It's a tool to keep track of things, but I have to spend the time.

throwamon 5y ago

For me I often feel it's a refusal to accept that life is short and I'll never have time to explore every single thing that has ever interested me in enough depth, and that no matter how much I learn and explore in the time I do have, I'll never be satisfied. So I keep on piling bookmarks on top of bookmarks and thus avoid having to choose what I will intently dedicate my time to. I gotta bookmark this comment and review it later. Keywords: digital gardening, data hoarding, Buddhism, hedonic treadmill.

csdvrx 5y ago
> For me I often feel it's a refusal to accept that life is short and I'll never have time to explore every single thing that has ever interested me in enough depth, and that no matter how much I learn and explore in the time I do have, I'll never be satisfied I love your comment and share your approach: my bookmarks are what will pop up if I search something before Bing tries to take me somewhere else. By bookmarking, I both accept that I do not have the time (not now or ever) and therefore I may never read this, unless serendipity or need drives me to type the exact same keywoard > I gotta bookmark this comment and review it later No, as that would be an attachment: instead, you should let this comment go :)
lubujackson 5y ago
There is an idea that might make you feel better - personal libraries (or bookmarks, in this case) shouldn't be just be a collection of books read but of books one would like to read or have on hand for future use. This change in perspective turns your library from a "failure of accomplishment" to a "curated resource for future enrichment".
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Second that. I don't keep it in my library unless it's classic (by my standards) or I want to read it in the future. Accessibility breeds opportunity.

TrailMixRaisin 5y ago

I think you describe the real problem here. For me I just skip the bookmarking part. If I want to come back to something later, I just leave the tab open. This was a good solution because 2-3 years ago there came an inevitable browser crash and all the open tabs were lost. If you could not remember them, they most likely are not that important. Unfortunately these hard resets do not occur any more. So I have to close the tabs that I find not that interesting after some days. But closing tabs is much easier than deleting old bookmarks. I assume this is, because you have not commited yourself that much.

BeFlatXIII 5y ago
Hello, fellow 100+ tab club member. How do you keep your tabs organized? I used Tree Style Tab plus an extension to aggressively unload background tabs. I wish there were a browser where a vertical tree of tabs was the default tan interface instead of a hack around an inferior horizontal bar of tabs.
- TrailMixRaisin 5y ago
  Actually I do not use vertical trees because it forces me to select and close tabs once the get to small to have and text displayed on them.
- michaelsalim 5y ago
  I used the same extension but now moved to https://github.com/mbnuqw/sidebery https://github.com/mbnuqw/sidebery. You can group tabs, set rules (like automatically move to group X if URL matches Y) and much more. Best of all, you can save a snapshot of your tabs to open in the future instead of relying on restoring previous session.

jasode 5y ago

>What's broken is what we want to do with the bookmarks once we have them. The problem is we don't know exactly what that is. [...] We don't know why we really make those bookmarks. I think a lot of us do know why we save bookmarks. I think your point depends on equating bookmarks with a "future todo reading list". (Similar concept: https://www.google.com/search?q=tsundoku https://www.google.com/search?q=tsundoku) But a more complete taxonomy of bookmarks: - (1) saved urls for often visted websites like weather, status pages, etc. This saves time from having to recreate the google searches that finally lead you to that url or you found a deep url that bypasses a bunch of clicks. - (2) an archival "memory" of urls you already read that may be referenced later. The bookmarks are not a "todo list" because the content has already been read. However, a future piece of information may make a connection back to some of them. The personal url archive acts as a more manageable subset of the entire web for reference. - (3) a future reading list. Bookmarks are an alternative to opening up 100 tabs on the browser to read later Most of my "bookmarks" are category (2) but I just save the urls in a text file instead of using a bookmark manager. For the really important references, I try to save as mhtml local files.

lewisjoe 5y ago

You are right. But the reason is not because we are broken. It is because our tools are not intelligent enough to compliment our tendency to forget. I didn't find a single bookmarking system that reminded me of links I wanted to read later. I wrote this as a manifesto - https://github.com/joelewis/readmelater https://github.com/joelewis/readmelater and later went on to build a version of that vision not because I wanted to beat that idea to death, but just to scratch my own itch.

inter_netuser 5y ago

Bookmarking is broken. We bookmark to find them later. Better would be to save the entire page, not just the URL, as that would likely have more keywords that you'll remember later. That's what I do, just save pages into a folder.

elefantastisch 5y ago

I want to be able to refer back to valuable writing I've read online. I read something once about effective use of multiple choice questions in a classroom setting. I'd like to be able to find it again. I want to be able to browse a curated collection of the web around some topic. I've come across a handful of really, really good tech blogs over the years. I'd like to be able to flip through them in one place. I'd like to be able to peruse my collection of in-browser games. I want to get faster access to sites I use often. This might be seeding the autocomplete algorithm in the address bar, some kind of launcher, etc. I don't know what form this would ideally take, but it's a use case I want for bookmarks.

datavirtue 5y ago
If you want to refer to it then just archive it yourself.

rchaud 5y ago

Agreed 100%. My bookmarking behaviour has changed massively in this respect over the past 15 years. I used to have a giant bookmarks folder but at some point it became easier to Google for the site first, for a number of reasons: 1) Link rot. I have bookmarks from as late as 2016, that 404 because the site is no longer hosted. 2) With smartphones, my browsing is split across PC and mobile, and I don't sync bookmarks across them (personal preference). This leads to more Google-first behaviour. 3) More and more stuff is getting bookmarked inside of apps. Reddit 'saves', Pinterest 'pins' and Twitter 'bookmarks'.