4 ms·

Over regulation is a big part of how this mess was created in the first place. Go read about Stockholm’s housing U̶t̶o̶p̶i̶a̶ hellscape to see the future you’d

Over regulation is a big part of how this mess was created in the first place. Go read about Stockholm’s housing U̶t̶o̶p̶i̶a̶ hellscape to see the future you’d create.

goodpoint 5y ago
"Over regulation" is an absurd concept: laws are not simply "not enough" or "too much". What really matters is *what* is allowed and prohibited and who benefits from it. In many countries regulatory capture led to building and zoning laws that serve to the interest of large investors groups as well as small speculators. People who have a home as necessity rather than an investment are put at a disadvantage.
- pmorici 5y ago
  Wether you like it or not owning a home is always an investment. Perhaps not a good one but an investment non the less. To act like there are two types of people and that one disadvantaging the other because of their preference is silly.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    No. You are confusing the primary purpose being an investment and being a dwelling. The intentions and behavior of the buyer can be profoundly different. Unsurprisingly, most countries have different regulations for first home buyer VS local investors VS foreign investors. If anything it's silly not wanting to acknowledge the difference. Or perhaps a bit cheeky.
    - pmorici 5y ago
      Unless the owner is letting the property sit empty it isn’t going to have an effect on the supply/ demand balance of housing. Where you live is always going to have financial consequences that can’t be ignored.
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        > Unless the owner is letting the property sit empty ...which happens all the time, especially with large speculative investors. > it isn’t going to have an effect Besides, it's also plain wrong, obviously. Owners have an effect on the occupancy rate. The same house can be occupied by 2, 3 or 4 for example.
mmarq 5y ago
The only housing hellscape I had to deal with in my entire life has been renting in London. Thank God I finally managed to buy a flat, but I’ve been at risk of homelessness with a solid 6-digit salary, because landlords can evict you with 1 month notice for no reason (so guess what happens if the fridge breaks and they don’t want to replace it). Renters are vetted more than somebody who requested a mortgage, are not expected to have any privacy and may not pass the reference check if they had a severe disease (say cancer). The state of disrepair is appalling, professionals live in places where Sweden, as you mentioned Stockholm, wouldn’t house criminals or recovering addicts (as in somebody who can’t pay rent). Going from this hellscape to whatever is going on in Stockholm would definitely be an improvement.
- xibalba 5y ago
  > Going from this hellscape to whatever is going on in Stockholm would definitely be an improvement Are you sure?: "Sweden has not built enough rental(s) ... meaning long queues for rent-controlled housing ... average waiting time was 9 years in 2020" [1] "...fuelled a thriving sub-letting or "second-hand" market, with "first-hand" renters and owners alike offering apartments to tenants for very high prices, despite regulations designed to stop people being ripped-off." [2] "70% of local authorities reported a housing shortage in 2020." [1] "...strict rent controls discourage developers from building and individuals from renting out vacant properties..." [1] "Generous mortgage tax breaks encourage households to buy property and the combination has forced up house prices and household borrowing to levels that threaten the economy" [1] "Home prices have risen around 18% over the last year alone" [1] "Regulations ... are also fuelling market instability" [2] "'I have a lot of friends who are struggling - moving many times per year,' says Maria Grigorenko, a 29-year-old brand manager in Stockholm" [2] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/sweden-housing/factbox-dysfunctional-swedish-housing-market-behind-ouster-of-pm-lofven-idUSL5N2O51RM https://www.reuters.com/article/sweden-housing/factbox-dysfu... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58317555 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58317555
  - mmarq 5y ago
    You’ve just posted a link that proves my point: Despite its complex challenges, Sweden is in a better position on housing than many other EU countries. Only around 8% of Swedes live in households spending more than 40% of disposable income on housing, compared to 15% in the UK and almost 40% in Greece, according Eurostat data. Swedes are also less likely to live with their parents than any other young Europeans. But until recently, getting a well-maintained, rent-controlled apartment straight after school is something some Swedes have just taken "for granted", argues Liza, a 37-year-old tech worker, who didn't want to share her last name. She moved to London from Stockholm last year, and believes Swedes complaining about housing shortages would do well to put their struggles in a wider context. "In the UK, apartments are often super old and not of good standard, even though the rent would be much more than in Sweden."

Over regulation is a big part of how this mess was created in the first place. Go read about Stockholm’s housing U̶t̶o̶p̶i̶a̶ hellscape to see the future you’d create.

goodpoint 5y ago

"Over regulation" is an absurd concept: laws are not simply "not enough" or "too much". What really matters is *what* is allowed and prohibited and who benefits from it. In many countries regulatory capture led to building and zoning laws that serve to the interest of large investors groups as well as small speculators. People who have a home as necessity rather than an investment are put at a disadvantage.

pmorici 5y ago
Wether you like it or not owning a home is always an investment. Perhaps not a good one but an investment non the less. To act like there are two types of people and that one disadvantaging the other because of their preference is silly.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  No. You are confusing the primary purpose being an investment and being a dwelling. The intentions and behavior of the buyer can be profoundly different. Unsurprisingly, most countries have different regulations for first home buyer VS local investors VS foreign investors. If anything it's silly not wanting to acknowledge the difference. Or perhaps a bit cheeky.
  - pmorici 5y ago
    Unless the owner is letting the property sit empty it isn’t going to have an effect on the supply/ demand balance of housing. Where you live is always going to have financial consequences that can’t be ignored.
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      > Unless the owner is letting the property sit empty ...which happens all the time, especially with large speculative investors. > it isn’t going to have an effect Besides, it's also plain wrong, obviously. Owners have an effect on the occupancy rate. The same house can be occupied by 2, 3 or 4 for example.

mmarq 5y ago

The only housing hellscape I had to deal with in my entire life has been renting in London. Thank God I finally managed to buy a flat, but I’ve been at risk of homelessness with a solid 6-digit salary, because landlords can evict you with 1 month notice for no reason (so guess what happens if the fridge breaks and they don’t want to replace it). Renters are vetted more than somebody who requested a mortgage, are not expected to have any privacy and may not pass the reference check if they had a severe disease (say cancer). The state of disrepair is appalling, professionals live in places where Sweden, as you mentioned Stockholm, wouldn’t house criminals or recovering addicts (as in somebody who can’t pay rent). Going from this hellscape to whatever is going on in Stockholm would definitely be an improvement.

xibalba 5y ago
> Going from this hellscape to whatever is going on in Stockholm would definitely be an improvement Are you sure?: "Sweden has not built enough rental(s) ... meaning long queues for rent-controlled housing ... average waiting time was 9 years in 2020" [1] "...fuelled a thriving sub-letting or "second-hand" market, with "first-hand" renters and owners alike offering apartments to tenants for very high prices, despite regulations designed to stop people being ripped-off." [2] "70% of local authorities reported a housing shortage in 2020." [1] "...strict rent controls discourage developers from building and individuals from renting out vacant properties..." [1] "Generous mortgage tax breaks encourage households to buy property and the combination has forced up house prices and household borrowing to levels that threaten the economy" [1] "Home prices have risen around 18% over the last year alone" [1] "Regulations ... are also fuelling market instability" [2] "'I have a lot of friends who are struggling - moving many times per year,' says Maria Grigorenko, a 29-year-old brand manager in Stockholm" [2] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/sweden-housing/factbox-dysfunctional-swedish-housing-market-behind-ouster-of-pm-lofven-idUSL5N2O51RM https://www.reuters.com/article/sweden-housing/factbox-dysfu... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58317555 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58317555
- mmarq 5y ago
  You’ve just posted a link that proves my point: Despite its complex challenges, Sweden is in a better position on housing than many other EU countries. Only around 8% of Swedes live in households spending more than 40% of disposable income on housing, compared to 15% in the UK and almost 40% in Greece, according Eurostat data. Swedes are also less likely to live with their parents than any other young Europeans. But until recently, getting a well-maintained, rent-controlled apartment straight after school is something some Swedes have just taken "for granted", argues Liza, a 37-year-old tech worker, who didn't want to share her last name. She moved to London from Stockholm last year, and believes Swedes complaining about housing shortages would do well to put their struggles in a wider context. "In the UK, apartments are often super old and not of good standard, even though the rent would be much more than in Sweden."