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> There are plenty of legitimate concerns about the effect of social media on individuals and societies, but as both a smoker and a former FB employee equating

> There are plenty of legitimate concerns about the effect of social media on individuals and societies, but as both a smoker and a former FB employee equating them is a stretch. Your statement seems to imply that cigarettes are known to cause physical bodily harm and that Facebook does not. This also sounds eerily like the statement Andrew Bosworth (FB exec) made: "While Facebook may not be nicotine I think it is probably like sugar. Sugar is delicious and for most of us there is a special place for it in our lives. But like all things it benefits from moderation." But Facebook does not just impact the user, unlike sugar. Your actions can directly impact me. So it is more like cigarettes in that regard. The privacy implications aside, all social media is going to have negative mental health outcomes in the long run as all platform's best case scenario is for users to view more and they do that by ignoring what may be good for it's users mental health. If Mark Zuckerberg saw what Facebook is today and what fuels it back in the early days I'd suspect he'd be disgusted by it and the direction it's trying to drag people into (Metaverse). It's worse than big tobacco because people don't need to go out and buy or pay for social media in the traditional sense. They just need to pick up something they likely already own and pay with time. They don't know the motive is ad revenue, not their own well being. Social media are marketing sales companies. But they claim falsehoods such as entertainment or community. They don't highlight how those things get them paid on earnings calls. They talk about their ad revenue. Social media should require a label every time a user opens the app. A warning, no different than cigarettes. Showcasing the negative mental state its users can have, showcasing the negative an echo chamber can create and showcasing how people can become so sick they make life altering choices due to consuming social media.

benreesman 5y ago
You make some good points but I’ll offer a little food for thought and a little first-hand anecdote. I tend to agree that there’s research supporting the thesis that people’s inclination to post only the highlights of their lives on social media creates an unrealistic and frankly depressing comparison for the median viewer of it. Most of us didn’t just graduate from a prestigious university or get married or welcome a child into the world and it’s easy to be like: “well my life sucks”. But the nicotine/sugar debate is kinda missing that we sell alcohol at 7/11 which is devastating in excess to my health, my loved one’s sanity, and fatal to the guy I run over driving. We tried prohibiting that and it ended very badly. Is too much Internet better or worse than too much whiskey? Debatable I guess, but, free country? I’ve known Andrew Bozworth for years and we have disagreed plenty of times. But he’s in the top like 5% of people I know on integrity in all the ways we can sort of measure that as individuals: tells people the truth, keeps promises, admits mistakes, treats his wife and kid well, all that. And whether you agree with his life’s work or not: he’s not in it for the money, I don’t know his finances but he joined early, I’m pretty sure he could buy like a pro sports team if he wanted. He works hard because he wants to achieve his goal. I’m not sure I agree with his goal, but he isn’t faking it.
- headsoup 5y ago
  I think honestly your food for thought sounds more like a diversion after pretend agreeing and a character reference for a job offer.
  - benreesman 5y ago
    I’m pretty sure that all my SV bridges were burned a long time ago. Antonio was very kind to me in the book but “god of the drunken brogrammers” doesn’t have the same ring to it that it did when Chaos Monkeys got all those awards. The only character reference I can hope for, or frankly would want, is that I’m pretty good at my job in spite of my personal issues. I wasn’t trying to spin up a big contentious thread, I was trying to inject some first hand knowledge of how this stuff works so that people can make informed judgements about it. If having worked at FB half a decade ago and thinking Boz is a pretty stand up guy in person makes me a pariah? Then I guess it’s a beautiful day for an auto de fay.
    - headsoup 5y ago
      Fair enough. Thanks for the input and clarification
- windexh8er 5y ago
  > But the nicotine/sugar debate is kinda missing that we sell alcohol at 7/11 which is devastating in excess to my health, my loved one’s sanity, and fatal to the guy I run over driving. In many respects I agree here. But, like sugar and nicotine: alcohol is an active choice that one must pay for in a much different way - the barrier to entry is not the same. We can also draw parallels that advertising by the liquor company is targeting me to buy it. But liquor companies aren't marketing companies playing a slight of hand game. They sell a product, not the ad. Is alcohol detrimental to society in certain respects? Yes. The argument here, however, seems to be: that it's OK to add another unhealthy aspect to our lives. But it's much harder for a 12 year old to buy alcohol. It's not hard for that same 12 year old to misunderstand the motives of Facebook, TikTok and Instagram. Alcoholism and Social Media share health negativities. But they are not the same in ease with which to consume. Andrew Bosworth (not Bozworth) knows very well the negative implications of the product he works on, yet continues to stand behind it even if "...he could buy like a pro sports team...". Just because he's rich doesn't mean his intentions serve anyone other than himself. He penned "The Ugly" at Facebook and knows the platform can have dire implications. I didn't claim he was faking it, I was stating that your response seemed to take a cue from his analogy. Irrespective of that I also don't think the analogy is a good representation of the state of social media.
pseudalopex 5y ago
> If Mark Zuckerberg saw what Facebook is today and what fuels it back in the early days I'd suspect he'd be disgusted by it and the direction it's trying to drag people into (Metaverse). I suspect Zuckerberg's morals didn't change much. What makes you think they did?

benreesman 5y ago

You make some good points but I’ll offer a little food for thought and a little first-hand anecdote. I tend to agree that there’s research supporting the thesis that people’s inclination to post only the highlights of their lives on social media creates an unrealistic and frankly depressing comparison for the median viewer of it. Most of us didn’t just graduate from a prestigious university or get married or welcome a child into the world and it’s easy to be like: “well my life sucks”. But the nicotine/sugar debate is kinda missing that we sell alcohol at 7/11 which is devastating in excess to my health, my loved one’s sanity, and fatal to the guy I run over driving. We tried prohibiting that and it ended very badly. Is too much Internet better or worse than too much whiskey? Debatable I guess, but, free country? I’ve known Andrew Bozworth for years and we have disagreed plenty of times. But he’s in the top like 5% of people I know on integrity in all the ways we can sort of measure that as individuals: tells people the truth, keeps promises, admits mistakes, treats his wife and kid well, all that. And whether you agree with his life’s work or not: he’s not in it for the money, I don’t know his finances but he joined early, I’m pretty sure he could buy like a pro sports team if he wanted. He works hard because he wants to achieve his goal. I’m not sure I agree with his goal, but he isn’t faking it.

headsoup 5y ago
I think honestly your food for thought sounds more like a diversion after pretend agreeing and a character reference for a job offer.
- benreesman 5y ago
  I’m pretty sure that all my SV bridges were burned a long time ago. Antonio was very kind to me in the book but “god of the drunken brogrammers” doesn’t have the same ring to it that it did when Chaos Monkeys got all those awards. The only character reference I can hope for, or frankly would want, is that I’m pretty good at my job in spite of my personal issues. I wasn’t trying to spin up a big contentious thread, I was trying to inject some first hand knowledge of how this stuff works so that people can make informed judgements about it. If having worked at FB half a decade ago and thinking Boz is a pretty stand up guy in person makes me a pariah? Then I guess it’s a beautiful day for an auto de fay.
  - headsoup 5y ago
    Fair enough. Thanks for the input and clarification
windexh8er 5y ago
> But the nicotine/sugar debate is kinda missing that we sell alcohol at 7/11 which is devastating in excess to my health, my loved one’s sanity, and fatal to the guy I run over driving. In many respects I agree here. But, like sugar and nicotine: alcohol is an active choice that one must pay for in a much different way - the barrier to entry is not the same. We can also draw parallels that advertising by the liquor company is targeting me to buy it. But liquor companies aren't marketing companies playing a slight of hand game. They sell a product, not the ad. Is alcohol detrimental to society in certain respects? Yes. The argument here, however, seems to be: that it's OK to add another unhealthy aspect to our lives. But it's much harder for a 12 year old to buy alcohol. It's not hard for that same 12 year old to misunderstand the motives of Facebook, TikTok and Instagram. Alcoholism and Social Media share health negativities. But they are not the same in ease with which to consume. Andrew Bosworth (not Bozworth) knows very well the negative implications of the product he works on, yet continues to stand behind it even if "...he could buy like a pro sports team...". Just because he's rich doesn't mean his intentions serve anyone other than himself. He penned "The Ugly" at Facebook and knows the platform can have dire implications. I didn't claim he was faking it, I was stating that your response seemed to take a cue from his analogy. Irrespective of that I also don't think the analogy is a good representation of the state of social media.

pseudalopex 5y ago

> If Mark Zuckerberg saw what Facebook is today and what fuels it back in the early days I'd suspect he'd be disgusted by it and the direction it's trying to drag people into (Metaverse). I suspect Zuckerberg's morals didn't change much. What makes you think they did?