4 ms·

I wish there was a massive truck blockade here in Australia to remove vaccine mandates and passports - which they lambasted as conspiracy theories early in the

I wish there was a massive truck blockade here in Australia to remove vaccine mandates and passports - which they lambasted as conspiracy theories early in the pandemic. I can't leave the country because I'm unvaccinated, can't board domestic flights, get my hair cut or go to weddings with more than 20 people because I refuse to take an experimental vaccine.

throwawaymanbot 5y ago
nyokodo 5y ago
> because I refuse to take an experimental vaccine. You might elicit sympathy for your plight if you had lab confirmed robust preexisting natural immunity which was being ignored, or you were a young man at great risk of myo/pericarditis, or severely allergic to vaccine ingredients. However, as you merely stated an obvious falsehood, that the vaccines are experimental, you get no sympathy from me. What do you think you’re going to discover that the ~100,000 phase I-III test subjects and billions of people who already got vaccinated haven’t already discovered?
- copperwater69 5y ago
  I don't need your sympathy I want my human rights recognised and respected by the state legislators which have exempted themselves from taking this experimental vaccine
  - nyokodo 5y ago
    > I don't need your sympathy But you do need the sympathy or at least respect of the Australian electorate and by asserting obvious nonsense to the vast majority all you’re doing is empowering your opponents.
    - johng 5y ago
      If his legislators can exempt themselves, he should be afforded the same treatment. Do as I say not as I do isn't really a good political policy?
      - nyokodo 5y ago
        > Do as I say not as I do isn't really a good political policy Government hypocrisy is a cliché and isn't very notable above the din. The people that the OP need on their side will be focusing on the fact that vaccines are so obviously not "experimental" that have gone into billions of arms with historically massive studies preceding that and historically massive post-vaccine surveillance following it. The perhaps hypocritical government people will easily be able to label holdouts like the OP as ignorant, selfish, and politically motivated and that will ring true to the electorate, and for good reason.
        aakresearch 5y ago
        Here we have a textbook example of gaslighting. Dismissing victim's concerns as childish - check; dismissing victim's pain as irrelevant - check; logical manipulation in order to persuade victim that they are the sole source of their pain - check; creating impression that help and support is not available - check; that nobody can possibly agree or align with the victim - check. Whether it is intentional abuse, or the result of genuine delusion, does not matter. It is wrong thing to do in any circumstances. Unless the abuser already established that the person is prone to this kind of manipulation, the outcome will most likely be the opposite of what they intended. Be extra careful, people may react to gaslighting in completely unpredictable way.
- NoPie 5y ago
  Actually we still don't know many things. The studies are still ongoing and while we don't expect radical discoveries, the long-term benefit of vaccines meaning how long the protection lasts, what are effects on new variants etc. are still unknown. Experimental for some is just a code word that the studies are not completed yet. One shouldn't read too much into this. However, it is clear that vaccine mandates are not really needed anyway, as the UK had never implemented them and recently they abolished them even for healthcare professionals [1]. What is so different in other EU countries or in the US/Canada? Vaccines still have positive benefit/risk ratio, there is no doubt about that. However, forced vaccination seems unnecessary when vaccines don't limit the spread of infection. They are purely for individual benefit. 1. https://www.medscape.co.uk/viewarticle/relief-and-frustration-u-turn-vax-mandate-2022a1000980 https://www.medscape.co.uk/viewarticle/relief-and-frustratio...
  - nyokodo 5y ago
    > Experimental for some is just a code word that the studies are not completed yet Then that's equivocation with the word "experimental." It's chosen to evoke the idea that the vaccines are a highly risky uncertain proposition when in fact we have enormous volumes of real-world data. if they intended to communicate the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts then the word to choose isn't experimental. The choice of the word is dishonest and driven by some other motivation.
    - NoPie 5y ago
      You can accuse antivax by putting too much meaning into the word “experimental” but you shouldn't fall for their attempts to redefine the meaning of this word and argue from that position. Experimental can be just something that is used in an experiment or trial. You can take a substance that is known as completely safe (NaCl in small quantities, for example) and then experiment on it. It will be called “study drug” for the purposes of research. The regulators actually don't use the term “experimental drug” but colloquially experiment is just another word for a test or trial.

throwawaymanbot 5y ago

nyokodo 5y ago

> because I refuse to take an experimental vaccine. You might elicit sympathy for your plight if you had lab confirmed robust preexisting natural immunity which was being ignored, or you were a young man at great risk of myo/pericarditis, or severely allergic to vaccine ingredients. However, as you merely stated an obvious falsehood, that the vaccines are experimental, you get no sympathy from me. What do you think you’re going to discover that the ~100,000 phase I-III test subjects and billions of people who already got vaccinated haven’t already discovered?

copperwater69 5y ago
I don't need your sympathy I want my human rights recognised and respected by the state legislators which have exempted themselves from taking this experimental vaccine
- nyokodo 5y ago
  > I don't need your sympathy But you do need the sympathy or at least respect of the Australian electorate and by asserting obvious nonsense to the vast majority all you’re doing is empowering your opponents.
  - johng 5y ago
    If his legislators can exempt themselves, he should be afforded the same treatment. Do as I say not as I do isn't really a good political policy?
    - nyokodo 5y ago
      > Do as I say not as I do isn't really a good political policy Government hypocrisy is a cliché and isn't very notable above the din. The people that the OP need on their side will be focusing on the fact that vaccines are so obviously not "experimental" that have gone into billions of arms with historically massive studies preceding that and historically massive post-vaccine surveillance following it. The perhaps hypocritical government people will easily be able to label holdouts like the OP as ignorant, selfish, and politically motivated and that will ring true to the electorate, and for good reason.
      - aakresearch 5y ago
        Here we have a textbook example of gaslighting. Dismissing victim's concerns as childish - check; dismissing victim's pain as irrelevant - check; logical manipulation in order to persuade victim that they are the sole source of their pain - check; creating impression that help and support is not available - check; that nobody can possibly agree or align with the victim - check. Whether it is intentional abuse, or the result of genuine delusion, does not matter. It is wrong thing to do in any circumstances. Unless the abuser already established that the person is prone to this kind of manipulation, the outcome will most likely be the opposite of what they intended. Be extra careful, people may react to gaslighting in completely unpredictable way.
NoPie 5y ago
Actually we still don't know many things. The studies are still ongoing and while we don't expect radical discoveries, the long-term benefit of vaccines meaning how long the protection lasts, what are effects on new variants etc. are still unknown. Experimental for some is just a code word that the studies are not completed yet. One shouldn't read too much into this. However, it is clear that vaccine mandates are not really needed anyway, as the UK had never implemented them and recently they abolished them even for healthcare professionals [1]. What is so different in other EU countries or in the US/Canada? Vaccines still have positive benefit/risk ratio, there is no doubt about that. However, forced vaccination seems unnecessary when vaccines don't limit the spread of infection. They are purely for individual benefit. 1. https://www.medscape.co.uk/viewarticle/relief-and-frustration-u-turn-vax-mandate-2022a1000980 https://www.medscape.co.uk/viewarticle/relief-and-frustratio...
- nyokodo 5y ago
  > Experimental for some is just a code word that the studies are not completed yet Then that's equivocation with the word "experimental." It's chosen to evoke the idea that the vaccines are a highly risky uncertain proposition when in fact we have enormous volumes of real-world data. if they intended to communicate the uncertainty over how long immunity lasts then the word to choose isn't experimental. The choice of the word is dishonest and driven by some other motivation.
  - NoPie 5y ago
    You can accuse antivax by putting too much meaning into the word “experimental” but you shouldn't fall for their attempts to redefine the meaning of this word and argue from that position. Experimental can be just something that is used in an experiment or trial. You can take a substance that is known as completely safe (NaCl in small quantities, for example) and then experiment on it. It will be called “study drug” for the purposes of research. The regulators actually don't use the term “experimental drug” but colloquially experiment is just another word for a test or trial.