5 ms·

Interesting that you would name a newspaper of record as a valid outlet for government news/updates. I feel like Facebook could make an argument for being essen

Interesting that you would name a newspaper of record as a valid outlet for government news/updates. I feel like Facebook could make an argument for being essentially that today - after all, it is where the eyeballs are, which is why people use it for marriage announcements, birth announcements, classifieds, obituaries.... and on and on.

woodruffw 5y ago
A newspaper of record has additional advantages. For example, the newspaper can't accidentally delete or automoderate an already published article, and anybody can cut the article out of the newspaper and save it without having to pay for electricity and digital storage media in perpetuity.
- openknot 5y ago
  There is also comparatively more at stake when a newspaper gets facts wrong, versus misinformation on a Facebook post. When a newspaper mistakenly publishes false information at the time (which should not happen too often due to internal fact-checking teams or at least a trained editor and journalist), they issue a correction out of journalistic ethics. But when a Facebook post publishes a falsehood, there is far less obligation to issue a correction notice or remove the post.
  - iszomer 5y ago
    Or stealth edit but by then people would have moved on to the next consumable news article.
- throwaway1777 5y ago
  This is such a straw man. You’re really comparing physical newspapers to Facebook? Even my boomer parents let their physical subscription go.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    A "straw man" is an intentionally weak opponent in an argument. I don't think I've done that (where, in this thread, would I have the occasion to?) I'm not comparing physical newspapers to Facebook. The Internet has obviously won. What I've said is that governments of all levels should not be allowed to solely distribute important public information solely via private platforms. A newspaper was just an obvious example, one that already has a legal precedent.
- ma2rten 5y ago
  You can also screenshot and print a post on facebook. It's probably cheaper than buying a newspaper.
  - openknot 5y ago
    You can download scanned versions of respectable local newspapers for free (or at least, already paid for by taxes) in many US and Canadian cities if you have a public library card, by checking if you have a PressReader resource with the library. For example (just because it's a big city), the New York Public Library offers the service [0]. This is useful if there is interest in reading in-depth content about local news. [0] https://www.nypl.org/research/collections/articles-databases/pressreader https://www.nypl.org/research/collections/articles-databases...
istorical 5y ago
But newspapers can't ban you permanently from ever reading again (including bans that track you via device or IP or other factors) for a one-time mistake like a drunk rant where you said the wrong thing. Imagine a hormonal 16 year old makes a violent (but ultimately just them spouting off with no real intent to follow through) threat against a local police department. In the modern world, they basically lose digital citizenship for their mistake. There's no route for reconciliation or re-entry into society when it comes to major tech platforms and bans. With prison, you theoretically pay your time and then can re-enter society. Not so with online bans.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  I wonder if Facebook could be legally compelled to offer read only accounts in the case of banning. Seems like a simple solution.
  - pjerem 5y ago
    By doing this, you are making them legally legitimate to convey imprudent information. No, the simple solution is to enforce public authorities not to use Facebook (or similar platform) as their main communication channel. You know the saying "it’s easy to make a Twitter clone, it’s not easy to become Twitter". Well government don’t need to become Twitter, so what is stopping them to provide a "public" Twitter clone just for those communications ?
- iechoz6H 5y ago
  If by 'lose digital citizenship' you mean 'kicked off Facebook' I think that's probably overstating. I got my first domestic internet connection in 1996 and have never had a Facebook account yet don't in any way feel deprived of 'digital citizenship'. Perhaps I'm unique!
  - omgwtf1000 5y ago
    Nope, you’re not :)
  - sneak 5y ago

woodruffw 5y ago

A newspaper of record has additional advantages. For example, the newspaper can't accidentally delete or automoderate an already published article, and anybody can cut the article out of the newspaper and save it without having to pay for electricity and digital storage media in perpetuity.

openknot 5y ago
There is also comparatively more at stake when a newspaper gets facts wrong, versus misinformation on a Facebook post. When a newspaper mistakenly publishes false information at the time (which should not happen too often due to internal fact-checking teams or at least a trained editor and journalist), they issue a correction out of journalistic ethics. But when a Facebook post publishes a falsehood, there is far less obligation to issue a correction notice or remove the post.
- iszomer 5y ago
  Or stealth edit but by then people would have moved on to the next consumable news article.
throwaway1777 5y ago
This is such a straw man. You’re really comparing physical newspapers to Facebook? Even my boomer parents let their physical subscription go.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  A "straw man" is an intentionally weak opponent in an argument. I don't think I've done that (where, in this thread, would I have the occasion to?) I'm not comparing physical newspapers to Facebook. The Internet has obviously won. What I've said is that governments of all levels should not be allowed to solely distribute important public information solely via private platforms. A newspaper was just an obvious example, one that already has a legal precedent.
ma2rten 5y ago
You can also screenshot and print a post on facebook. It's probably cheaper than buying a newspaper.
- openknot 5y ago
  You can download scanned versions of respectable local newspapers for free (or at least, already paid for by taxes) in many US and Canadian cities if you have a public library card, by checking if you have a PressReader resource with the library. For example (just because it's a big city), the New York Public Library offers the service [0]. This is useful if there is interest in reading in-depth content about local news. [0] https://www.nypl.org/research/collections/articles-databases/pressreader https://www.nypl.org/research/collections/articles-databases...

istorical 5y ago

But newspapers can't ban you permanently from ever reading again (including bans that track you via device or IP or other factors) for a one-time mistake like a drunk rant where you said the wrong thing. Imagine a hormonal 16 year old makes a violent (but ultimately just them spouting off with no real intent to follow through) threat against a local police department. In the modern world, they basically lose digital citizenship for their mistake. There's no route for reconciliation or re-entry into society when it comes to major tech platforms and bans. With prison, you theoretically pay your time and then can re-enter society. Not so with online bans.

RC_ITR 5y ago
I wonder if Facebook could be legally compelled to offer read only accounts in the case of banning. Seems like a simple solution.
- pjerem 5y ago
  By doing this, you are making them legally legitimate to convey imprudent information. No, the simple solution is to enforce public authorities not to use Facebook (or similar platform) as their main communication channel. You know the saying "it’s easy to make a Twitter clone, it’s not easy to become Twitter". Well government don’t need to become Twitter, so what is stopping them to provide a "public" Twitter clone just for those communications ?
iechoz6H 5y ago
If by 'lose digital citizenship' you mean 'kicked off Facebook' I think that's probably overstating. I got my first domestic internet connection in 1996 and have never had a Facebook account yet don't in any way feel deprived of 'digital citizenship'. Perhaps I'm unique!
- omgwtf1000 5y ago
  Nope, you’re not :)
- sneak 5y ago