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Seems like Tether’s questionable activity throws a massive wrench in this analysis. You can’t equate minting to flows if the biggest minter is (allegedly) just

Seems like Tether’s questionable activity throws a massive wrench in this analysis. You can’t equate minting to flows if the biggest minter is (allegedly) just printing the things whenever they feel like it

hunterb123 5y ago
When it comes to printing and the biggest minter are you talking about the US government or...?
- Guest42 5y ago
  I think it’s accurate to state these types of complaints against government monetary control. However, doing so generally ignores the features and usage levels of currency that don’t and never will exist in cryptoland.
dustintrex 5y ago
This. The amount of real money flowing in supposedly increasing by 5% per month is also not compatible with many real-world indicators of interest showing the opposite, including Robinhood's crypto revenue falling off a cliff. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2021/10/27/robinhood-shares-plunge-after-a-decline-in-crypto-trading-hits-earnings/?sh=399ac9493a06 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2021/10/27/robi...
- jondwillis 5y ago
  Ironically, Robinhood's cryptocurrency revenue shouldn't be high in the estimation of _real_ cryptocurrency enthusiasts, what's the point of crypto if you don't/can't own your keys? Really lays the whole thing bare. FOMO.
- mike_d 5y ago
  Robinhood's crypto offering is just a shit product. You are just buying shares in their crypto holdings, not the underlying coins. It's like saying the internet is dying off because AOL's dialup customer base is shrinking.
Animats 5y ago
Um, yes. Stablecoin issuance that includes Tether is a terrible metric.[1] (This is a general problem in some areas of finance - is there new money entering the subsystem, or is it the same money going round and round? Crypto is so opaque that you can't tell. NFTs are worse. Coins at least have liquid markets and market prices. NFTs have high asking prices in stalled markets, and wash sales that conceal whether there's any significant resale market at all.) [1] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/01/11/tether-mints-record-2b-usdt-in-one-week/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/01/11/tether-mints-rec...
Scott_Sanderson 5y ago
He said "Stablecoins are tokens that are backed by a fiat currency." But it really tokens that are pegged to a fiat currency. You can't redeem tethers because there is no back account holding a dollar for every tether.
alienalp 5y ago
This is just wrong. There is definitely issiues with Tether. They dont deserve their place but i havent seen any proof of this claim. Plus usdt is almost always trading slightly above a dollar. Which means even if they are buying bitcoin with printing usdt that is no different than buying bitcoin with their reserves. I dont see any reason why would they do so.
- alienalp 5y ago
  This comment of mine sounds like optimistic. It is just i haven't seen any proof of printing. But i wouldn't trust and try to avoid if it possible because of its inheritance.
mike_d 5y ago
> just printing the things whenever they feel like it sigh This is a common misconception, so fact check time... Tether is printed on demand, but it is backed by assets. An independent audit was done to settle a claim brought by the New York Attorney General. The audit found $35.2 billion in assets against $35.1 billion in issuance liabilities. The case was settled with an $18 million fine and a promise of increased transparency, but ultimately the NYAG was unable to demonstrate any evidence supporting claims that Tether was unbacked.
- goatsi 5y ago
  The "issuance liabilities" included loans backed by bitcoin. If someone posts bitcoin as collateral and tethers are generated, how much money has flown into crypto? https://blockworks.co/celsius-reportedly-borrowed-1b-from-tether-with-bitcoin-as-collateral/ https://blockworks.co/celsius-reportedly-borrowed-1b-from-te...

hunterb123 5y ago

When it comes to printing and the biggest minter are you talking about the US government or...?

Guest42 5y ago
I think it’s accurate to state these types of complaints against government monetary control. However, doing so generally ignores the features and usage levels of currency that don’t and never will exist in cryptoland.

dustintrex 5y ago

This. The amount of real money flowing in supposedly increasing by 5% per month is also not compatible with many real-world indicators of interest showing the opposite, including Robinhood's crypto revenue falling off a cliff. https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2021/10/27/robinhood-shares-plunge-after-a-decline-in-crypto-trading-hits-earnings/?sh=399ac9493a06 https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2021/10/27/robi...

jondwillis 5y ago
Ironically, Robinhood's cryptocurrency revenue shouldn't be high in the estimation of _real_ cryptocurrency enthusiasts, what's the point of crypto if you don't/can't own your keys? Really lays the whole thing bare. FOMO.
mike_d 5y ago
Robinhood's crypto offering is just a shit product. You are just buying shares in their crypto holdings, not the underlying coins. It's like saying the internet is dying off because AOL's dialup customer base is shrinking.

Animats 5y ago

Um, yes. Stablecoin issuance that includes Tether is a terrible metric.[1] (This is a general problem in some areas of finance - is there new money entering the subsystem, or is it the same money going round and round? Crypto is so opaque that you can't tell. NFTs are worse. Coins at least have liquid markets and market prices. NFTs have high asking prices in stalled markets, and wash sales that conceal whether there's any significant resale market at all.) [1] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/01/11/tether-mints-record-2b-usdt-in-one-week/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/01/11/tether-mints-rec...

Scott_Sanderson 5y ago

He said "Stablecoins are tokens that are backed by a fiat currency." But it really tokens that are pegged to a fiat currency. You can't redeem tethers because there is no back account holding a dollar for every tether.

alienalp 5y ago

This is just wrong. There is definitely issiues with Tether. They dont deserve their place but i havent seen any proof of this claim. Plus usdt is almost always trading slightly above a dollar. Which means even if they are buying bitcoin with printing usdt that is no different than buying bitcoin with their reserves. I dont see any reason why would they do so.

alienalp 5y ago
This comment of mine sounds like optimistic. It is just i haven't seen any proof of printing. But i wouldn't trust and try to avoid if it possible because of its inheritance.

mike_d 5y ago

> just printing the things whenever they feel like it sigh This is a common misconception, so fact check time... Tether is printed on demand, but it is backed by assets. An independent audit was done to settle a claim brought by the New York Attorney General. The audit found $35.2 billion in assets against $35.1 billion in issuance liabilities. The case was settled with an $18 million fine and a promise of increased transparency, but ultimately the NYAG was unable to demonstrate any evidence supporting claims that Tether was unbacked.

goatsi 5y ago
The "issuance liabilities" included loans backed by bitcoin. If someone posts bitcoin as collateral and tethers are generated, how much money has flown into crypto? https://blockworks.co/celsius-reportedly-borrowed-1b-from-tether-with-bitcoin-as-collateral/ https://blockworks.co/celsius-reportedly-borrowed-1b-from-te...