5 ms·

We know that Amazon has a max salary of $160,000 or some such

WaxProlix 5y ago
Technically true, in Seattle, but a large portion of comp comes in RSUs above that mark. You can see on levels.fyi that new hires in the 5-10 YOE range are getting total comps in the 3 or 400s pretty consistently.
- CobrastanJorji 5y ago
  Yes, which is a problem. Amazon employees have been watching themselves get steady, significant raises via stock vesting for years, but AMZN flattened out in mid-2020 and the company's done very little to account for that, so everybody's raises have started to dry up.
  - petilon 5y ago
    Amazon employees get RSUs. The difference between stock options and RSUs is that options are worthless if the stock price doesn't go up, but RSUs are worth the stock price, so it doesn't have to go up, it just needs to not drop.
    - qqtt 5y ago
      > so it doesn't have to go up, it just needs to not drop. Amazon compensation packages assume 15% increase in RSU value year over year, so when you get a 4 year grant as a new hire, your target compensation will be projected based off 15% year over year growth, which typically means less stock granted in year 4 compared to year 3. With a stagnant stock price, many Amazon employees are potentially at risk of not hitting their year 3 target compensation.
    - Rebelgecko 5y ago
      I've heard that when AMZN goes up, Amazon will actually take that into account and reduce your refreshers
  - WaxProlix 5y ago
    I'm definitely aware of that. Amazon's comp was never competitive, and stagnant (or even declining) stock over a multi-year period exacerbates the issue for sure. I say this as someone who recently left AWS, in large part for comp related issues (actually kinda loved the job I eventually fell into, alas).
    - burnoot 5y ago
      I’m not sure whether everyone else is getting poorly paid at Amazon, or whether my clique is just doing well, but I’ve found that my salary is (was) in line with the higher end of the market. The declining/flat stock price changes that though. I know quite a few Amazonians looking to leave once their two years are up* * Amazon pay a signing bonus for the first two years in lieu of RSUs. The idea is that you could sell your RSUs to make up the difference. The problem is that, for anyone who started in the last two years, your RSUs won’t make up the difference between your base salary and what you were getting as a bonus.
      - WaxProlix 5y ago
        Market has gone up, too - if you're a recent hire, your comp targets are actually above those of your seniors. As an incoming L4 you can make up to 200k now, whereas 140 or 150 was considered 'good' 5 or 6 years ago. L6s who are pulling in mid 3s can leave and get 5-600k elsewhere very easily. It's not that the amazon money is bad per se, just that the industry and talent market are kind of crazy right now.
        freyr 5y ago
        L6 at Amazon is two levels up from the bottom (“senior engineer”)? Where are they making $500k-$600k a year? From levels.fyi, FAANG and the unicorns are almost all in the $300k-$400k range. Have offers gone up $200k in the last few months? Or are you assuming people are moving up a level?
        WaxProlix 5y ago
        It's true actually, levels shows them topping out at ~400, but I personally know a few who are well above that.
  - nijave 5y ago
    A lot of places are issuing RSUs based on cash value, not set share quantity. If stock goes down, you end up getting more shares and vice versa but the $ stays the same It's basically just regular bonuses tied to tenure

Technically true, in Seattle, but a large portion of comp comes in RSUs above that mark. You can see on levels.fyi that new hires in the 5-10 YOE range are getting total comps in the 3 or 400s pretty consistently.

CobrastanJorji 5y ago
Yes, which is a problem. Amazon employees have been watching themselves get steady, significant raises via stock vesting for years, but AMZN flattened out in mid-2020 and the company's done very little to account for that, so everybody's raises have started to dry up.
- petilon 5y ago
  Amazon employees get RSUs. The difference between stock options and RSUs is that options are worthless if the stock price doesn't go up, but RSUs are worth the stock price, so it doesn't have to go up, it just needs to not drop.
  - qqtt 5y ago
    > so it doesn't have to go up, it just needs to not drop. Amazon compensation packages assume 15% increase in RSU value year over year, so when you get a 4 year grant as a new hire, your target compensation will be projected based off 15% year over year growth, which typically means less stock granted in year 4 compared to year 3. With a stagnant stock price, many Amazon employees are potentially at risk of not hitting their year 3 target compensation.
  - Rebelgecko 5y ago
    I've heard that when AMZN goes up, Amazon will actually take that into account and reduce your refreshers
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  I'm definitely aware of that. Amazon's comp was never competitive, and stagnant (or even declining) stock over a multi-year period exacerbates the issue for sure. I say this as someone who recently left AWS, in large part for comp related issues (actually kinda loved the job I eventually fell into, alas).
  - burnoot 5y ago
    I’m not sure whether everyone else is getting poorly paid at Amazon, or whether my clique is just doing well, but I’ve found that my salary is (was) in line with the higher end of the market. The declining/flat stock price changes that though. I know quite a few Amazonians looking to leave once their two years are up* * Amazon pay a signing bonus for the first two years in lieu of RSUs. The idea is that you could sell your RSUs to make up the difference. The problem is that, for anyone who started in the last two years, your RSUs won’t make up the difference between your base salary and what you were getting as a bonus.
    - WaxProlix 5y ago
      Market has gone up, too - if you're a recent hire, your comp targets are actually above those of your seniors. As an incoming L4 you can make up to 200k now, whereas 140 or 150 was considered 'good' 5 or 6 years ago. L6s who are pulling in mid 3s can leave and get 5-600k elsewhere very easily. It's not that the amazon money is bad per se, just that the industry and talent market are kind of crazy right now.
      - freyr 5y ago
        L6 at Amazon is two levels up from the bottom (“senior engineer”)? Where are they making $500k-$600k a year? From levels.fyi, FAANG and the unicorns are almost all in the $300k-$400k range. Have offers gone up $200k in the last few months? Or are you assuming people are moving up a level?
        WaxProlix 5y ago
        It's true actually, levels shows them topping out at ~400, but I personally know a few who are well above that.
- nijave 5y ago
  A lot of places are issuing RSUs based on cash value, not set share quantity. If stock goes down, you end up getting more shares and vice versa but the $ stays the same It's basically just regular bonuses tied to tenure