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Here's [1] the lecture where Vladimir Voevodsky talked about the problem and his experience with it but like the blog says, he didn't and they don't consider i

Here's [1] the lecture where Vladimir Voevodsky talked about the problem and his experience with it but like the blog says, he didn't and they don't consider it a crisis. Even HoTT (and other TT) people present it as how things could be much better, not about how things are terrible. 1. https://youtu.be/E9RiR9AcXeE https://youtu.be/E9RiR9AcXeE

zmgsabst 5y ago
I worked in applied math, in industry — as the math engine guy supporting economists. The trials and tribulations of abstract math where these are little errors that turn out to (mostly) be salvaged translates into billion dollar mistakes in mathematical models in industry — errors that have caused a hiring freeze at a major tech company. I respect other people feel differently — I personally think there is a crisis in mathematics, where the mistakes/errors of Voevodsky et al is the tip of the iceberg, but the most visible since it happens in academia versus industry. I hope everyone can agree that: a) it’s currently hard to verify mathematical models and proofs; and, b) we could make that better — and currently are working on it.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  I think for there to even be a crisis there would have to be consensus on that.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- pas 5y ago
  But that's not a crisis of math, it's a crisis of business trying to use math that is not made for it. It's the Post Office Scandal all over again. Overreliance on shitty models, lack of quality assurance, etc. (Or if we look at it like the O-ring debacle of the Challenger accident, or the usual problem of one-off creations, like the Hubble, JWST, or any other public project that is late and over budget. And the F35 is also in this category, because it's also the problem of forcing a model on people that has so many free parameters that it's an endless argument about nothing.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
  - zmgsabst 5y ago
    You’re trying to correct me about something I experienced first hand in my career — and you’re coming across as ignorant. What you lament as “business trying to use math that is not made for it” is precisely the problem: Mathematics can’t be reliably applied, even if you hire a dozen world class PhDs, hundreds of software engineers, and let them spend years trying to make it work. That’s a crisis.

zmgsabst 5y ago

I worked in applied math, in industry — as the math engine guy supporting economists. The trials and tribulations of abstract math where these are little errors that turn out to (mostly) be salvaged translates into billion dollar mistakes in mathematical models in industry — errors that have caused a hiring freeze at a major tech company. I respect other people feel differently — I personally think there is a crisis in mathematics, where the mistakes/errors of Voevodsky et al is the tip of the iceberg, but the most visible since it happens in academia versus industry. I hope everyone can agree that: a) it’s currently hard to verify mathematical models and proofs; and, b) we could make that better — and currently are working on it.

guerrilla 5y ago
I think for there to even be a crisis there would have to be consensus on that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
pas 5y ago
But that's not a crisis of math, it's a crisis of business trying to use math that is not made for it. It's the Post Office Scandal all over again. Overreliance on shitty models, lack of quality assurance, etc. (Or if we look at it like the O-ring debacle of the Challenger accident, or the usual problem of one-off creations, like the Hubble, JWST, or any other public project that is late and over budget. And the F35 is also in this category, because it's also the problem of forcing a model on people that has so many free parameters that it's an endless argument about nothing.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
- zmgsabst 5y ago
  You’re trying to correct me about something I experienced first hand in my career — and you’re coming across as ignorant. What you lament as “business trying to use math that is not made for it” is precisely the problem: Mathematics can’t be reliably applied, even if you hire a dozen world class PhDs, hundreds of software engineers, and let them spend years trying to make it work. That’s a crisis.