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I get your point but I'd like to be a little more optimistic and flexible about how I see the future playing out. I think at this point writing off Israel as be

I get your point but I'd like to be a little more optimistic and flexible about how I see the future playing out. I think at this point writing off Israel as being Zionist and never anything but is a bit like doing the same with the USA around the time of its inception, saying it'll never be anything but a slaveholding colonial fief to the British. I'd like to think there are possible futures where things change for the better, and those are the thoughts that give me hope for Israel and for Palestine as well.

weatherlite 5y ago
Things can also change for the worse though, especially for the Jews living there. just saying.
- doctorhandshake 5y ago
  You won’t hear any arguments from me about that!
skinnymuch 5y ago
Are you American? I'm Pro-American and I don't agree that I am not Pro-American just because I believe a decent chunk, like 5% of continental America, should be given to Native Americans if they want that. I don't see what that has to do with being Pro-American. Being selfish and greedy and nationalist are bad principles to me. That's anti-American to me.
- weatherlite 5y ago
  Being non Zionist as far as I understand the term today is calling for the dismantling of Israel as a Jewish state - by demographically allowing millions of Palestinian refugee descendants to move there and/or by violently uprooting the Jews from there as the Iranians are trying to do. So this is much more than giving up 5%.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Your previous comment stated you didn't see how it can work to be pro-American and want to give land back to Native Americans. I put out 5% as a random number. That was for the continental US only. I think Hawaii, Alaska, and say another 20% of continental America should be given to Native Americans and others mistreated by my country, etc. We see understanding of terms isn't simple. I believe doing the above is very Pro-American and a great thing to do. -- I have not understood Zionism that way. I regularly see hot take news and youtube try to pigeonhole stuff into attempting to describe some one as non Zionist and then pin things like dismantling Israel as part of that descriptor. Here is a take of how not being a Zionist is not what you understand it as. Meghan McCain is as pro-Israel (alongside little if any regard for Palestine) as you can get. She wears those politics on her sleeves as transparently as you can get while having no ties to Israel outside friends with Israeli ties. "McCain said. “I would go so far as to say I probably verge on being a Zionist as well.”[0] -- > Iranians are trying to do The Iranians are not doing that much. For an example right around the corner for what trying to uproot people in a land means, you can see what is happening in Yemen. Now that is trying. Comparatively, the amount of effort going into propping up Hamas is inconsequential. It's not good. It's bad. Iran is bad here. Hamas is bad here. [0] https://www.thedailybeast.com/meghan-mccain-breaks-down-in-tears-over-ilhan-omars-scary-israel-comments https://www.thedailybeast.com/meghan-mccain-breaks-down-in-t... ----- I think this comes down more to not the literal words being used all the time. But who is saying them, how they are, and more. I know when some people, like a friend of my uncle's says he is not Zionist. Knowing him. Hell, if you hear him talk for just a little while. You know what he means. He means something closer to what you meant. The actual phrase doesn't give it away. Every thing he says gives it away. Meanwhile, I hope everything I say give away I am not like that at all. In fact, that same person I believe has essentially called me some semblance of Jewish (as a pejorative). So I mean :/

weatherlite 5y ago

Things can also change for the worse though, especially for the Jews living there. just saying.

doctorhandshake 5y ago
You won’t hear any arguments from me about that!

skinnymuch 5y ago

Are you American? I'm Pro-American and I don't agree that I am not Pro-American just because I believe a decent chunk, like 5% of continental America, should be given to Native Americans if they want that. I don't see what that has to do with being Pro-American. Being selfish and greedy and nationalist are bad principles to me. That's anti-American to me.

weatherlite 5y ago
Being non Zionist as far as I understand the term today is calling for the dismantling of Israel as a Jewish state - by demographically allowing millions of Palestinian refugee descendants to move there and/or by violently uprooting the Jews from there as the Iranians are trying to do. So this is much more than giving up 5%.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Your previous comment stated you didn't see how it can work to be pro-American and want to give land back to Native Americans. I put out 5% as a random number. That was for the continental US only. I think Hawaii, Alaska, and say another 20% of continental America should be given to Native Americans and others mistreated by my country, etc. We see understanding of terms isn't simple. I believe doing the above is very Pro-American and a great thing to do. -- I have not understood Zionism that way. I regularly see hot take news and youtube try to pigeonhole stuff into attempting to describe some one as non Zionist and then pin things like dismantling Israel as part of that descriptor. Here is a take of how not being a Zionist is not what you understand it as. Meghan McCain is as pro-Israel (alongside little if any regard for Palestine) as you can get. She wears those politics on her sleeves as transparently as you can get while having no ties to Israel outside friends with Israeli ties. "McCain said. “I would go so far as to say I probably verge on being a Zionist as well.”[0] -- > Iranians are trying to do The Iranians are not doing that much. For an example right around the corner for what trying to uproot people in a land means, you can see what is happening in Yemen. Now that is trying. Comparatively, the amount of effort going into propping up Hamas is inconsequential. It's not good. It's bad. Iran is bad here. Hamas is bad here. [0] https://www.thedailybeast.com/meghan-mccain-breaks-down-in-tears-over-ilhan-omars-scary-israel-comments https://www.thedailybeast.com/meghan-mccain-breaks-down-in-t... ----- I think this comes down more to not the literal words being used all the time. But who is saying them, how they are, and more. I know when some people, like a friend of my uncle's says he is not Zionist. Knowing him. Hell, if you hear him talk for just a little while. You know what he means. He means something closer to what you meant. The actual phrase doesn't give it away. Every thing he says gives it away. Meanwhile, I hope everything I say give away I am not like that at all. In fact, that same person I believe has essentially called me some semblance of Jewish (as a pejorative). So I mean :/