5 ms·

The first few months where everything was closed, including parks and beaches?

by aantix 5y ago

ryandrake 5y ago
I don't recall any point, at least in my region: Bay Area, CA, when people universally complied with these closures. I think OP's point is: regardless of whether things were ordered closed, enough people were out and about horsing around, ignoring the closures, that nothing was effectively closed. There was no real lockdown in the USA, if you go beyond just looking at the mandates and take into account people's actual behavior. So I'm not sure how they review effects of a lockdown that never happened.
- concinds 5y ago
  Unless you plan on deploying the U.S. military on every street and beach during the next lockdown, what we saw was what happens when a lockdown is declared. They're measuring the efficacy of an intervention: lockdowns being declared; high/low compliance is irrelevant to the intervention's effectiveness, since compliance isn't within the government's control.
- landemva 5y ago
  'There was no real lockdown in the USA ' Not really true. Hawaii closed parks, trails, and beaches. https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/hawaii-coronavirus-cases-inter-island-travel-restrictions https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/hawaii-coronavi... ' Honolulu, city parks were closed on Aug. 8 along with beaches and state parks and indoor attractions like bowling alleys and arcades. ' Colorado closed all ski areas. https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/14/jared-polis-executive-order-ski-resorts/ https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/14/jared-polis-executive-ord...
  - eli 5y ago
    Closing parks and beaches is definitely something but is it fair to call that a "real lockdown"? Compared to places with curfews and travel restrictions?
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      It's definitely something, I would call it a crappy ineffective and poorly advised lockdown
  - epgui 5y ago
    The problem is that the effectiveness of lockdowns depends on the degree to which you are able to compartmentalize. If some regions have a lockdown and not others, but people are able to freely move from one region to another, then the least strict policy will be the one (roughly speaking) limiting disease transmission. The stringency index should be aggregated as the minimum of all areas that allow for freedom of movement.
    - landemva 5y ago
      Is it possible to stop movement of wild animals which are infected and transmit it back to humans? Impossible goal posts to pursue.
      - epgui 5y ago
        No, and it's not even possible to completely stop human movement. At the end of the day you need trucks to get across, etc. But getting close to perfect isolation is feasible: this is where monitoring and testing becomes most important, as you have to react quickly to contain any outbreak leakage. Importantly, the key benefit of this approach is that it allows you to open up in a controlled fashion areas that are clear of any outbreaks. So while the measures are most extreme and most costly up front, they ultimately are economically advantageous because they are of shorter duration.
- aantix 5y ago
  I have no idea about your area. Here in Lincoln, NE, everything was locked down to the point where open air parks had bright orange fencing around the playground equipment. Grocery stores, Home Depot and Walmart were all that were open. Walmart had a block long line, socially distanced of people waiting to get in. A Walmart employee was controlling the flow and ensuring masks. The streets were empty. You couldn't go anywhere even if you wanted to.
- erglkjklhrt 5y ago
- brnaftr361 5y ago
  So where authoritarianism doesn't exist they're pointless because they're ineffectual symbolism? In any case it appears they should be eschewed. If something severe enough comes along people will do what needs done, I reckon. And I dunno, Louis Rossman has a lot of videos up, NYC was definitely impacted.
- chrismcb 5y ago
  Other then the businesses actually being closed? Streets were empty in San Francisco at least. People were allowed to exercise outside but that was about it. Saying that was effectively not a shutdown is a bit disengenious.

The first few months where everything was closed, including parks and beaches?

by aantix 5y ago

The first few months where everything was closed, including parks and beaches?

I don't recall any point, at least in my region: Bay Area, CA, when people universally complied with these closures. I think OP's point is: regardless of whether things were ordered closed, enough people were out and about horsing around, ignoring the closures, that nothing was effectively closed. There was no real lockdown in the USA, if you go beyond just looking at the mandates and take into account people's actual behavior. So I'm not sure how they review effects of a lockdown that never happened.

concinds 5y ago
Unless you plan on deploying the U.S. military on every street and beach during the next lockdown, what we saw was what happens when a lockdown is declared. They're measuring the efficacy of an intervention: lockdowns being declared; high/low compliance is irrelevant to the intervention's effectiveness, since compliance isn't within the government's control.
landemva 5y ago
'There was no real lockdown in the USA ' Not really true. Hawaii closed parks, trails, and beaches. https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/hawaii-coronavirus-cases-inter-island-travel-restrictions https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/hawaii-coronavi... ' Honolulu, city parks were closed on Aug. 8 along with beaches and state parks and indoor attractions like bowling alleys and arcades. ' Colorado closed all ski areas. https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/14/jared-polis-executive-order-ski-resorts/ https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/14/jared-polis-executive-ord...
- eli 5y ago
  Closing parks and beaches is definitely something but is it fair to call that a "real lockdown"? Compared to places with curfews and travel restrictions?
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    It's definitely something, I would call it a crappy ineffective and poorly advised lockdown
- epgui 5y ago
  The problem is that the effectiveness of lockdowns depends on the degree to which you are able to compartmentalize. If some regions have a lockdown and not others, but people are able to freely move from one region to another, then the least strict policy will be the one (roughly speaking) limiting disease transmission. The stringency index should be aggregated as the minimum of all areas that allow for freedom of movement.
  - landemva 5y ago
    Is it possible to stop movement of wild animals which are infected and transmit it back to humans? Impossible goal posts to pursue.
    - epgui 5y ago
      No, and it's not even possible to completely stop human movement. At the end of the day you need trucks to get across, etc. But getting close to perfect isolation is feasible: this is where monitoring and testing becomes most important, as you have to react quickly to contain any outbreak leakage. Importantly, the key benefit of this approach is that it allows you to open up in a controlled fashion areas that are clear of any outbreaks. So while the measures are most extreme and most costly up front, they ultimately are economically advantageous because they are of shorter duration.
aantix 5y ago
I have no idea about your area. Here in Lincoln, NE, everything was locked down to the point where open air parks had bright orange fencing around the playground equipment. Grocery stores, Home Depot and Walmart were all that were open. Walmart had a block long line, socially distanced of people waiting to get in. A Walmart employee was controlling the flow and ensuring masks. The streets were empty. You couldn't go anywhere even if you wanted to.
erglkjklhrt 5y ago
brnaftr361 5y ago
So where authoritarianism doesn't exist they're pointless because they're ineffectual symbolism? In any case it appears they should be eschewed. If something severe enough comes along people will do what needs done, I reckon. And I dunno, Louis Rossman has a lot of videos up, NYC was definitely impacted.
chrismcb 5y ago
Other then the businesses actually being closed? Streets were empty in San Francisco at least. People were allowed to exercise outside but that was about it. Saying that was effectively not a shutdown is a bit disengenious.