17 ms·

I used indie hacking to sponsor my own green card

138 points by Swizec 5y ago

draw_down 5y ago
theshadowmonkey 5y ago
Most of the article is clickbait. You can get EB2 sponsored from a run of the mill startup in SF Bay Area. Only thing worked for you is you were not born in India or China. Everything else you did was probably harder than actually getting a job and getting a sponsorship. 100% of companies that are halfway decent will sponsor you if you manage to get a job in the Bay Area(Hint: Its very easy if you're already in the US on some visa). Also, your statement about 5 years in a job to get GC sponsorship is pure BS.
VTimofeenko 5y ago
> Last I heard, your employer can apply for a greencard after 5 years on a visa. You can then become independent after a grace period with the sponsoring employer. 6 months is typical. Having gone through L1 process myself I don't believe the 5 years until application is an official requirement. L1 visa itself maxes out at 5 years, so filing for the greencard with the work permit(EAD) at 5 year mark will leave the employee unable to work until the work permit is granted. I have seen cases when companies would file for a greencard almost immediately after transferring the employee on L1 visa.
- whoisjuan 5y ago
  This is correct. You can apply for a green card whenever. I did mine a few months after getting my H1B.
  - VTimofeenko 5y ago
    Minor correction: in case of the work visas it's not the employee that files for green card, but the company. It's not a cheap process(and AFAIK, the employee cannot pay even a portion of the main process by themselves), so some companies hesitate when filing, leading to the long periods of uncertainty and stress.
    - whoisjuan 5y ago
      Right. My H1B employer refused to file for a green card right away and wanted to wait a year. I simply left for another employer who filed it right away.
      - VTimofeenko 5y ago
        Did you go through H porting process? How long did it take?
        whoisjuan 5y ago
        Yes. It took less than a month paying premium. But this was a while ago.
        VTimofeenko 5y ago
        Yeah, these days even with premium processing the processing times are insane.
        temp_praneshp 5y ago
        What do you mean by "these days"? My wife and I have done h1 porting 3 times in total during the pandemic (once during President Trump, others during President Biden), and the process was insanely fast (== 1.5 month total from starting email with lawyer to I797 in hand, including a week at DOL and about a week at USCIS for the I797). We used Premium Processing (never not used it, except during the time it was suspended a few years ago). I was curious if it has ballooned back up since May 2021.
        VTimofeenko 5y ago
        Haven't done H porting myself (went L1 -> GC), but the time to process for i539+i765 for L2 was 14 months in 2020-2021, which put my spouse on forced unpaid leave for ~8 months. Green card processing times estimates were also insane, so I surmised porting would be affected as well. Glad that it wasn't.
going_ham 5y ago
Thanks for the awesome post! Really insightful. Most people in the tech hypes about US. Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Does it really make a difference being somewhere else (for eg. Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK etc.) and being in the states? I am really curious to know about it. There is a meme that most of the open source projects stand because of some European dude doing off the charity work! The European companies also offer work permit for the qualified people!
- notyourday 5y ago
  > Does it really make a difference being somewhere else (for eg. Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK etc.) and being in the states? Yes. If you are any good you would make at least 2x in the US. Probably 3x to 4x.
- triceratops 5y ago
  > Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Money and career opportunities. Silicon Valley is to software as NYC or London are to finance. Working there will super-charge your bank balance and future career path disproportionate to your ability (meaning: you will work far harder for far less reward in other places).
- dominotw 5y ago
  > Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Yes if you want the best compensation. No if you value other things like staying in your home country near family.
- quixoticaxolotl 5y ago
  It depends on what you're optimizing for long-term as a member of the software industry. Pure monetary compensation? The US remains the only place where salaries for junior developers begin in the early six figures and climb higher with career progression. Security of living? Probably not. A culture of entrepreneurship and a support network for your own entrepreneurial desires? Yes. Overall, I would say this is a great place to start a career as a foreign national but far from a perfect place to retire or even raise a family, unless you happen to be quite well off by that point.
vmception 5y ago
I've never heard of the O-1 Visa, but I do know of the L-1 visa and the E series visas. People should really read about US visa types. Well, for any country they want to get into. There are often times some really obscure paths prescribed by the government that even people working for that government don't know how to process because so few people (sometimes none) have used those paths. The crux of this article is that there is way more than H1B / wage slave visas that allow you to be present for a long time and support yourself.
- WaitWaitWha 5y ago
  > People should really read about US visa types. Like this? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/all-visa-categories.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-inf...
RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago
Congratulations. But it does seem risky making a public post about this. By using the word “hacking” and the implications in the post that the lawyers painted a very sanguine view of the qualifications as well as the admission that the lawyers wrote the reference letters and just had the “highly successful” friend sign, seems very risky. The US government has revoked greencards and naturalization in the past for what they consider fraudulent applications. I am definitely not saying or implying that anything was fraudulent, but you never know who might read your post and decide that it seems suspicious and worth doing an audit.
- Swizec 5y ago
  You’re right, “draft” wouldve been a better word to use. The reason lawyers do that is to make it easier on your busy friends/connections to do the favor and to ensure the right things are mentioned. Everyone has the opportunity to change anything before signing
  - 533474 5y ago
    If I was you, I would have written an anonymous blog post or nothing at all
    - e1g 5y ago
      Absolutely. @Swizec: ask your immigration lawyers if they're OK with this post being online and linked to both of you. If they are, you need new lawyers.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - bencollier49 5y ago
    Honestly, I'd be super paranoid about this. Someone with an axe to grind about foreign workers could report you on the off chance. You seem like a super clever bloke and the US would do well to take you, but if I was an immigration official and read this post, I'd be red underlining your application. They've made it mega-easy to report, as well.
yftsui 5y ago
- Swizec 5y ago
  The justification that my GC hinges on has been approved. As long as I don't commit any crimes while I-485 processing churns, it's essentially a done deal. And I've done all the medical stuff already. I'm even allowed to freely leave the country without abandoning my application. A benefit of being from Slovenia is that there's no queue. I am only waiting on slowdowns due to covid.
  - yftsui 5y ago
    Well as long as you don’t have I-485 approved, you don’t have Green Card approved. Adjudication of I-485 is an entirely different process than I-131/I-765 or I-140, which are the ones you get approved for real. The 2 year Combo card is not a green card.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
myth17 5y ago
For immigration to USA, whatever you do just don’t be born in India where wait to get Green Card is 2-3 decades (yes 20-30 years estimated wait). If only one could control the place of birth…
- kingcharles 5y ago
  Ugh. This is true. When I was at the US Embassy getting my fiancee visa I started talking to an African woman. She was very excited. She had just been called up to get her visa after being on the list for 18 FUCKING YEARS.
- sremani 5y ago
  I feel you -- I have family that is waiting for GC. But this is not the thread to despair -- take a look at his strategy pick the elements and execute. Also, understand sooner or later there is a legislative exit for this issue. I am sure, once there is great labor pressure in the US market, there would steps taken to mend the GC waiting line issue.
  - bgdam 5y ago
    Or you could stop waiting and living for an uncertain future, and just move to a country which values your skills more than the place you were born. A lot of them are even better than the US (except for the pay).
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  Honest question: Is there any downside to simply crossing into the U.S. via its southern border, or overstaying a visa? My impression is that the U.S. government mostly doesn't enforce its laws against unlawful entry. And that the Democratic party wants a path to full citizenship for anyone who manages to stay in the country long enough. So I'm curious if this approach would work: 1. Enter the U.S. illegally to start the clock. 2. Work remotely "from India" for some company. Have a trusted friend/relative in India forward enough of your paycheck to the U.S. to cover your cost of living. 3. When the political climate is right, get onto whatever path to citizenship is being offered.
crazy1van 5y ago
Impressive story, but what did your lawyer say about making this blog post before it is a 100% fine deal?
- ianhawes 5y ago
  Legalpad is probably thrilled to be on the front page of Hacker News right now.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
kareemm 5y ago
You may want to pull this down. I've heard more than half a dozen stories about people who wrote about applying for visas whose socials and websites were checked and who were asked about things they've shared online. I'm not 100% sure but I think a Green Card can be revoked. And if you're applying for citizenship this post may not reflect favorably on you.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Not an employment lawyer but I agree. You really don't want anything that could cause issues at this point and even if there is a 99% chance this wont... It would be really unfortunate for the 1% to happen. Especially since only 3/4th of the process is finished.
- ianhawes 5y ago
  I'm not an immigration attorney but I work in the global mobility space and nothing about this post is particularly damning if it were to come up during adjudication of his N-400 (application for naturalization). What the author is describing, the EB-2 NIW, is well known amongst immigration attorneys.
  - danso 5y ago
    We live in a political and bureaucratic reality in which: 1. Immigration of any kind is highly scrutinized 2. Law enforcement suspicion can be aroused by something as trifling and absurd the fact that "Subversion" [0] sounds like "subversive" Putting aside the debate of what the word "hacking" actually means, wouldn't you advise a client to avoid writing a headline of "I used hacking..."? If your client runs afoul of the law for any reason, this seems like the kind of documentary "evidence" that prosecutors would be happy to entice a grand jury with. [0] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldma... https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Aleynikov-opinion.pdf https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Al... (page 12)
- fibers 5y ago
  Is this really an issue if the OP did this anonymously? Who would possibly know? Or does this count as perjury?
nwiswell 5y ago
You've made me feel embarrassingly privileged for have done absolutely nothing to earn my right to work in the world's tech capital. I wonder how many people just slightly less motivated or talented than you are turned away (or even more troubling: less able to afford prolific immigration lawyers). I understand the importance of immigration controls writ large, but this is transparently ridiculous.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Most never come.
  - graderjs 5y ago
    But then how is it the tech capital of the world? I think they do come. But there are still many talents outside.
    - ipaddr 5y ago
      It is the birthplace of the pc. It started in the 70s and 80s and turned into the center of the tech world. They do come, more than any other place but most don't come because uprooting your life and getting through the visa process is a lot more friction than working locally or semi-locally. If you live in Greece you would go to Germany before coming to sf.
      - graderjs 5y ago
        I think like most things online we're talking at slightly different aspects or perspectives of the same general topic. But the difference is subtle. I'll try to clarify a little bit > they do come, more than any other place but most don't come With most being, most of the > just slightly less motivated or talented than the author of the article. That our comments come in the wake of. I think we agree on that: that most of those outside of the very top of the tech elite do not come. And we're also not in dispute as to how it can become the tech capital of the world because I think most of the top talents that could come do come. But the most that don't come are those who are just slightly less motivated or talented than the very top. I think our disagreement here is probably all about degrees and relative amounts rather than about the substance of the the points. I could be misunderstanding what you're saying, but here's how I see it. Say there exist 1 million top tech talents in the world. I say most of those that can come do come to the Bay area. The crucial part is: can come. What does "that can come" mean? It means how much demand is there in the Bay area for top tech talents. Let's just say the demand is like 500,000 top tech talent jobs in the Bay area. That means out of a million top tech talents in the world there are 500,000 that can come to the Bay area. What I'm saying is that most of those do come. So at the very least 250,001 top tech talents do come to the Bay area. that's what I'm saying. I think the reality is very much in line with that thesis. I admit I have no hard data to back this up it's just my feeling that it should be the case. I'd be very surprised if the reality that I described (adjusted for the actual amounts,) was not the case. I mean if it was not the case I'd be happy to learn, and that would be surprising and interesting, and a highly useful lesson that I could update my perspective with because it was so surprising to me. But I highly doubt that it's not the case. Also the more we talk about this the more I'm sure that we don't actually disagree about that. Do I think that most of the subtop tech talents do not come to the Bay area? Yes I absolutely think that the vast majority of not-elite tech talent in the world (so those outside of that hypothetical 1 million) do not come. One reason is obvious which is just because there's so many tech talents in the world and there's not enough demand in the San Francisco Bay area to accommodate all of those. The second part of that is those sub-top tech talents that could come. so where there is a demand for subtop tech talents do most of those come or not? I honestly don't know. I think it could go either way: maybe they come because they seek a better life and they want to get a higher salary and that high grade experience; Or maybe they don't come because they're just not motivated enough to overcome the immigration process barriers and maybe they're not (by definition) talented or experienced enough to command the even higher salaries that would make that an attractive proposition for people with that given level of motivation. I think it could go either way. Now none of this contradicts the idea I think you're proposing that the US immigration system presents real and troubling barriers to staffing the US tech industry. I agree: I think that's a real tension the US faces. I'm not pretending that's not a problem nor trying to say it's some easy problem.
flavius29663 5y ago
be advised, fraud in obtaining the green card is one of the few reasons they can cancel it. I wouldn't make waves about what you did, it might come back to haunt you.
- imgabe 5y ago
  It doesn’t sound like he did anything fraudulent. He did things that the application requires and the lawyer presented it in the best way possible, as is their job.
alangibson 5y ago
As an American citizen that left for Europe 10 years ago, I honestly don't see why an American citizenship is so desirable. Yes you can make a lot of money, but you don't need a citizenship for that. I tell people that ask me about moving over they should "get in and get out". Make your money then move to somewhere with a functional society to raise a family. You might take a pay cut but your kids won't get shot at school either.
- ForHackernews 5y ago
  It's too easy to dismiss something when you've never lacked for it. "Why I Became an American" by Enes Kanter Freedom - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-kanter-freedom-speaks/620940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-k...
  - alangibson 5y ago
    Apples and oranges. I'd like to give automatic citizenship to anyone persecuted in their home country, but most green card applicants aren't refugees.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- kkwteh 5y ago
  This is essentially what I did, and I feel like it worked out really well for me. Besides the benefits you mentioned, I feel like my money goes a lot further over here too in terms of healthcare, education, and housing.
  - alangibson 5y ago
    If you adjust for quality, many things in Europe are similar in cost to the US. Rents are arguably cheaper. A 2 bedroom apartment in Wien is like 1200 USD vs God knows how much in SF. And Wien is officially the world's most livable city.
- hkthrowaway88 5y ago
danso 5y ago
You paid all that money for legal services and no one told or implied to you that writing this specifically clickbait headline has significant potential downside?
gervwyk 5y ago
Thanks for sharing. Interested to learn more regarding your thoughts on "scarcity mindset around money". If you have written anything on the topic, please share.
manquer 5y ago
One thing to keep in mind in getting the Green Card(Permanent Residency ) in the U.S. it is not fully Permanent, you can loose your status if you leave for extended period of time.
kachurovskiy 5y ago
I definitely do not miss dealing with US immigration, unreasonable visa categories and green card process. Getting blue card and later residence permits in Germany for my family was such a breeze of sensibility and welcomeness compared to US.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
culi 5y ago
As someone who grew up undocumented, I'd like to point out a common misconception this article reinforces. The "marriage path" is not all it's hyped up to be in the media. And for some people it's not even really an option at all. My family came here without papers when I was 5. For me, the marriage path would've meant self-deporting for about 10 years while my documents would get looked over and, depending on how that went, it could take many more years after that. For someone who grew up here and barely speaks their native language, that's not really a "path". For most people, the marriage path is something you take only AFTER you've gotten your green card. When you get a green card, you can apply for full citizenship after 5 years. The only benefit of the marriage path is it'll let you do it after just 3 years instead. The other "marriage path" is one that is relatively good if you're not already in the US. If you're overseas, your spouse can apply for an I-310 and, SWOOSH, in just half a year to a year+ you can interview to be given a visa that will let you come to the US. Then you can start the insane process of applying for a green card and 3 or 5 years later you'll get to vote! If you're undocumented your only hope ~~is~~was DACA unless you manage to somehow get asylee or refugee status. My family finally got asylum after living here for almost 2 decades. In two years I'll be able to apply for a green card and then just 5 years later I can vote too TL;DR: The marriage path is not really an option for most immigrants already in the US
- bubbleRefuge 5y ago
  The marriage path works fine if you come in on a tourist visa and over stay it.
- returningfory2 5y ago
  Congratulations on finally getting on a path to citizenship, that's really great to hear. Yeah, in general the US immigration system discriminates between undocumented immigrants who (a) entered on a visa, and then never left versus (b) those who crossed the border illegally. People in category (a) can apply for green cards in many situations (e.g. marriage, or employment sponsorship after getting TPS) that those in (b) can't. Often times the wider public is not aware of this distinction.
MisterSandman 5y ago
As an Indian, it's depressing to see how long it takes to get something like a green card, and even more depressing when I realize that I probably can't even pull this off due to my country of origin. I gave up on a top CS university in the US when I realized that even doing everything right could mean that I could be kicked out of the country after the elections or another 9/11. I'm still happy where I'm at, and I know I'm in an incredibly privileged position... but it just sucks.
- bgdam 5y ago
  As an Indian, your path to staying in the US without worries about being kicked out is to get a Canadian citizenship. It can be done as early as 3 years, and then as a Canadian, you can cross over to the US as and when required.
  - MisterSandman 5y ago
    Not sure if you read my past posts, or this is just a massive coincidence, but I did end up choosing a Canadian University. Hoping to graduate with a decent enough job to get PR and then Citizenship. :fingers_crossed:

138 points by Swizec 5y ago

Most of the article is clickbait. You can get EB2 sponsored from a run of the mill startup in SF Bay Area. Only thing worked for you is you were not born in India or China. Everything else you did was probably harder than actually getting a job and getting a sponsorship. 100% of companies that are halfway decent will sponsor you if you manage to get a job in the Bay Area(Hint: Its very easy if you're already in the US on some visa). Also, your statement about 5 years in a job to get GC sponsorship is pure BS.

VTimofeenko 5y ago

> Last I heard, your employer can apply for a greencard after 5 years on a visa. You can then become independent after a grace period with the sponsoring employer. 6 months is typical. Having gone through L1 process myself I don't believe the 5 years until application is an official requirement. L1 visa itself maxes out at 5 years, so filing for the greencard with the work permit(EAD) at 5 year mark will leave the employee unable to work until the work permit is granted. I have seen cases when companies would file for a greencard almost immediately after transferring the employee on L1 visa.

whoisjuan 5y ago
This is correct. You can apply for a green card whenever. I did mine a few months after getting my H1B.
- VTimofeenko 5y ago
  Minor correction: in case of the work visas it's not the employee that files for green card, but the company. It's not a cheap process(and AFAIK, the employee cannot pay even a portion of the main process by themselves), so some companies hesitate when filing, leading to the long periods of uncertainty and stress.
  - whoisjuan 5y ago
    Right. My H1B employer refused to file for a green card right away and wanted to wait a year. I simply left for another employer who filed it right away.
    - VTimofeenko 5y ago
      Did you go through H porting process? How long did it take?
      - whoisjuan 5y ago
        Yes. It took less than a month paying premium. But this was a while ago.
        VTimofeenko 5y ago
        Yeah, these days even with premium processing the processing times are insane.
        temp_praneshp 5y ago
        What do you mean by "these days"? My wife and I have done h1 porting 3 times in total during the pandemic (once during President Trump, others during President Biden), and the process was insanely fast (== 1.5 month total from starting email with lawyer to I797 in hand, including a week at DOL and about a week at USCIS for the I797). We used Premium Processing (never not used it, except during the time it was suspended a few years ago). I was curious if it has ballooned back up since May 2021.
        VTimofeenko 5y ago
        Haven't done H porting myself (went L1 -> GC), but the time to process for i539+i765 for L2 was 14 months in 2020-2021, which put my spouse on forced unpaid leave for ~8 months. Green card processing times estimates were also insane, so I surmised porting would be affected as well. Glad that it wasn't.

going_ham 5y ago

Thanks for the awesome post! Really insightful. Most people in the tech hypes about US. Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Does it really make a difference being somewhere else (for eg. Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK etc.) and being in the states? I am really curious to know about it. There is a meme that most of the open source projects stand because of some European dude doing off the charity work! The European companies also offer work permit for the qualified people!

notyourday 5y ago
> Does it really make a difference being somewhere else (for eg. Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK etc.) and being in the states? Yes. If you are any good you would make at least 2x in the US. Probably 3x to 4x.
triceratops 5y ago
> Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Money and career opportunities. Silicon Valley is to software as NYC or London are to finance. Working there will super-charge your bank balance and future career path disproportionate to your ability (meaning: you will work far harder for far less reward in other places).
dominotw 5y ago
> Is it really worth as the hype to go through all these burdens and immigration process? Yes if you want the best compensation. No if you value other things like staying in your home country near family.
quixoticaxolotl 5y ago
It depends on what you're optimizing for long-term as a member of the software industry. Pure monetary compensation? The US remains the only place where salaries for junior developers begin in the early six figures and climb higher with career progression. Security of living? Probably not. A culture of entrepreneurship and a support network for your own entrepreneurial desires? Yes. Overall, I would say this is a great place to start a career as a foreign national but far from a perfect place to retire or even raise a family, unless you happen to be quite well off by that point.

vmception 5y ago

I've never heard of the O-1 Visa, but I do know of the L-1 visa and the E series visas. People should really read about US visa types. Well, for any country they want to get into. There are often times some really obscure paths prescribed by the government that even people working for that government don't know how to process because so few people (sometimes none) have used those paths. The crux of this article is that there is way more than H1B / wage slave visas that allow you to be present for a long time and support yourself.

WaitWaitWha 5y ago
> People should really read about US visa types. Like this? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/all-visa-categories.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-inf...

RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y ago

Congratulations. But it does seem risky making a public post about this. By using the word “hacking” and the implications in the post that the lawyers painted a very sanguine view of the qualifications as well as the admission that the lawyers wrote the reference letters and just had the “highly successful” friend sign, seems very risky. The US government has revoked greencards and naturalization in the past for what they consider fraudulent applications. I am definitely not saying or implying that anything was fraudulent, but you never know who might read your post and decide that it seems suspicious and worth doing an audit.

Swizec 5y ago
You’re right, “draft” wouldve been a better word to use. The reason lawyers do that is to make it easier on your busy friends/connections to do the favor and to ensure the right things are mentioned. Everyone has the opportunity to change anything before signing
- 533474 5y ago
  If I was you, I would have written an anonymous blog post or nothing at all
  - e1g 5y ago
    Absolutely. @Swizec: ask your immigration lawyers if they're OK with this post being online and linked to both of you. If they are, you need new lawyers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- bencollier49 5y ago
  Honestly, I'd be super paranoid about this. Someone with an axe to grind about foreign workers could report you on the off chance. You seem like a super clever bloke and the US would do well to take you, but if I was an immigration official and read this post, I'd be red underlining your application. They've made it mega-easy to report, as well.

yftsui 5y ago

Swizec 5y ago
The justification that my GC hinges on has been approved. As long as I don't commit any crimes while I-485 processing churns, it's essentially a done deal. And I've done all the medical stuff already. I'm even allowed to freely leave the country without abandoning my application. A benefit of being from Slovenia is that there's no queue. I am only waiting on slowdowns due to covid.
- yftsui 5y ago
  Well as long as you don’t have I-485 approved, you don’t have Green Card approved. Adjudication of I-485 is an entirely different process than I-131/I-765 or I-140, which are the ones you get approved for real. The 2 year Combo card is not a green card.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

myth17 5y ago

For immigration to USA, whatever you do just don’t be born in India where wait to get Green Card is 2-3 decades (yes 20-30 years estimated wait). If only one could control the place of birth…

kingcharles 5y ago
Ugh. This is true. When I was at the US Embassy getting my fiancee visa I started talking to an African woman. She was very excited. She had just been called up to get her visa after being on the list for 18 FUCKING YEARS.
sremani 5y ago
I feel you -- I have family that is waiting for GC. But this is not the thread to despair -- take a look at his strategy pick the elements and execute. Also, understand sooner or later there is a legislative exit for this issue. I am sure, once there is great labor pressure in the US market, there would steps taken to mend the GC waiting line issue.
- bgdam 5y ago
  Or you could stop waiting and living for an uncertain future, and just move to a country which values your skills more than the place you were born. A lot of them are even better than the US (except for the pay).
CoastalCoder 5y ago
Honest question: Is there any downside to simply crossing into the U.S. via its southern border, or overstaying a visa? My impression is that the U.S. government mostly doesn't enforce its laws against unlawful entry. And that the Democratic party wants a path to full citizenship for anyone who manages to stay in the country long enough. So I'm curious if this approach would work: 1. Enter the U.S. illegally to start the clock. 2. Work remotely "from India" for some company. Have a trusted friend/relative in India forward enough of your paycheck to the U.S. to cover your cost of living. 3. When the political climate is right, get onto whatever path to citizenship is being offered.

crazy1van 5y ago

Impressive story, but what did your lawyer say about making this blog post before it is a 100% fine deal?

ianhawes 5y ago
Legalpad is probably thrilled to be on the front page of Hacker News right now.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

kareemm 5y ago

You may want to pull this down. I've heard more than half a dozen stories about people who wrote about applying for visas whose socials and websites were checked and who were asked about things they've shared online. I'm not 100% sure but I think a Green Card can be revoked. And if you're applying for citizenship this post may not reflect favorably on you.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
Not an employment lawyer but I agree. You really don't want anything that could cause issues at this point and even if there is a 99% chance this wont... It would be really unfortunate for the 1% to happen. Especially since only 3/4th of the process is finished.
ianhawes 5y ago
I'm not an immigration attorney but I work in the global mobility space and nothing about this post is particularly damning if it were to come up during adjudication of his N-400 (application for naturalization). What the author is describing, the EB-2 NIW, is well known amongst immigration attorneys.
- danso 5y ago
  We live in a political and bureaucratic reality in which: 1. Immigration of any kind is highly scrutinized 2. Law enforcement suspicion can be aroused by something as trifling and absurd the fact that "Subversion" [0] sounds like "subversive" Putting aside the debate of what the word "hacking" actually means, wouldn't you advise a client to avoid writing a headline of "I used hacking..."? If your client runs afoul of the law for any reason, this seems like the kind of documentary "evidence" that prosecutors would be happy to entice a grand jury with. [0] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldman-sachs-programmer https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2013/09/michael-lewis-goldma... https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Aleynikov-opinion.pdf https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Al... (page 12)
fibers 5y ago
Is this really an issue if the OP did this anonymously? Who would possibly know? Or does this count as perjury?

nwiswell 5y ago

You've made me feel embarrassingly privileged for have done absolutely nothing to earn my right to work in the world's tech capital. I wonder how many people just slightly less motivated or talented than you are turned away (or even more troubling: less able to afford prolific immigration lawyers). I understand the importance of immigration controls writ large, but this is transparently ridiculous.

ipaddr 5y ago
Most never come.
- graderjs 5y ago
  But then how is it the tech capital of the world? I think they do come. But there are still many talents outside.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    It is the birthplace of the pc. It started in the 70s and 80s and turned into the center of the tech world. They do come, more than any other place but most don't come because uprooting your life and getting through the visa process is a lot more friction than working locally or semi-locally. If you live in Greece you would go to Germany before coming to sf.
    - graderjs 5y ago
      I think like most things online we're talking at slightly different aspects or perspectives of the same general topic. But the difference is subtle. I'll try to clarify a little bit > they do come, more than any other place but most don't come With most being, most of the > just slightly less motivated or talented than the author of the article. That our comments come in the wake of. I think we agree on that: that most of those outside of the very top of the tech elite do not come. And we're also not in dispute as to how it can become the tech capital of the world because I think most of the top talents that could come do come. But the most that don't come are those who are just slightly less motivated or talented than the very top. I think our disagreement here is probably all about degrees and relative amounts rather than about the substance of the the points. I could be misunderstanding what you're saying, but here's how I see it. Say there exist 1 million top tech talents in the world. I say most of those that can come do come to the Bay area. The crucial part is: can come. What does "that can come" mean? It means how much demand is there in the Bay area for top tech talents. Let's just say the demand is like 500,000 top tech talent jobs in the Bay area. That means out of a million top tech talents in the world there are 500,000 that can come to the Bay area. What I'm saying is that most of those do come. So at the very least 250,001 top tech talents do come to the Bay area. that's what I'm saying. I think the reality is very much in line with that thesis. I admit I have no hard data to back this up it's just my feeling that it should be the case. I'd be very surprised if the reality that I described (adjusted for the actual amounts,) was not the case. I mean if it was not the case I'd be happy to learn, and that would be surprising and interesting, and a highly useful lesson that I could update my perspective with because it was so surprising to me. But I highly doubt that it's not the case. Also the more we talk about this the more I'm sure that we don't actually disagree about that. Do I think that most of the subtop tech talents do not come to the Bay area? Yes I absolutely think that the vast majority of not-elite tech talent in the world (so those outside of that hypothetical 1 million) do not come. One reason is obvious which is just because there's so many tech talents in the world and there's not enough demand in the San Francisco Bay area to accommodate all of those. The second part of that is those sub-top tech talents that could come. so where there is a demand for subtop tech talents do most of those come or not? I honestly don't know. I think it could go either way: maybe they come because they seek a better life and they want to get a higher salary and that high grade experience; Or maybe they don't come because they're just not motivated enough to overcome the immigration process barriers and maybe they're not (by definition) talented or experienced enough to command the even higher salaries that would make that an attractive proposition for people with that given level of motivation. I think it could go either way. Now none of this contradicts the idea I think you're proposing that the US immigration system presents real and troubling barriers to staffing the US tech industry. I agree: I think that's a real tension the US faces. I'm not pretending that's not a problem nor trying to say it's some easy problem.

flavius29663 5y ago

be advised, fraud in obtaining the green card is one of the few reasons they can cancel it. I wouldn't make waves about what you did, it might come back to haunt you.

imgabe 5y ago
It doesn’t sound like he did anything fraudulent. He did things that the application requires and the lawyer presented it in the best way possible, as is their job.

alangibson 5y ago

As an American citizen that left for Europe 10 years ago, I honestly don't see why an American citizenship is so desirable. Yes you can make a lot of money, but you don't need a citizenship for that. I tell people that ask me about moving over they should "get in and get out". Make your money then move to somewhere with a functional society to raise a family. You might take a pay cut but your kids won't get shot at school either.

ForHackernews 5y ago
It's too easy to dismiss something when you've never lacked for it. "Why I Became an American" by Enes Kanter Freedom - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-kanter-freedom-speaks/620940/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/why-enes-k...
- alangibson 5y ago
  Apples and oranges. I'd like to give automatic citizenship to anyone persecuted in their home country, but most green card applicants aren't refugees.
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kkwteh 5y ago
This is essentially what I did, and I feel like it worked out really well for me. Besides the benefits you mentioned, I feel like my money goes a lot further over here too in terms of healthcare, education, and housing.
- alangibson 5y ago
  If you adjust for quality, many things in Europe are similar in cost to the US. Rents are arguably cheaper. A 2 bedroom apartment in Wien is like 1200 USD vs God knows how much in SF. And Wien is officially the world's most livable city.
hkthrowaway88 5y ago

danso 5y ago

You paid all that money for legal services and no one told or implied to you that writing this specifically clickbait headline has significant potential downside?

gervwyk 5y ago

Thanks for sharing. Interested to learn more regarding your thoughts on "scarcity mindset around money". If you have written anything on the topic, please share.

manquer 5y ago

One thing to keep in mind in getting the Green Card(Permanent Residency ) in the U.S. it is not fully Permanent, you can loose your status if you leave for extended period of time.

kachurovskiy 5y ago

I definitely do not miss dealing with US immigration, unreasonable visa categories and green card process. Getting blue card and later residence permits in Germany for my family was such a breeze of sensibility and welcomeness compared to US.

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culi 5y ago

As someone who grew up undocumented, I'd like to point out a common misconception this article reinforces. The "marriage path" is not all it's hyped up to be in the media. And for some people it's not even really an option at all. My family came here without papers when I was 5. For me, the marriage path would've meant self-deporting for about 10 years while my documents would get looked over and, depending on how that went, it could take many more years after that. For someone who grew up here and barely speaks their native language, that's not really a "path". For most people, the marriage path is something you take only AFTER you've gotten your green card. When you get a green card, you can apply for full citizenship after 5 years. The only benefit of the marriage path is it'll let you do it after just 3 years instead. The other "marriage path" is one that is relatively good if you're not already in the US. If you're overseas, your spouse can apply for an I-310 and, SWOOSH, in just half a year to a year+ you can interview to be given a visa that will let you come to the US. Then you can start the insane process of applying for a green card and 3 or 5 years later you'll get to vote! If you're undocumented your only hope ~~is~~was DACA unless you manage to somehow get asylee or refugee status. My family finally got asylum after living here for almost 2 decades. In two years I'll be able to apply for a green card and then just 5 years later I can vote too TL;DR: The marriage path is not really an option for most immigrants already in the US

bubbleRefuge 5y ago
The marriage path works fine if you come in on a tourist visa and over stay it.
returningfory2 5y ago
Congratulations on finally getting on a path to citizenship, that's really great to hear. Yeah, in general the US immigration system discriminates between undocumented immigrants who (a) entered on a visa, and then never left versus (b) those who crossed the border illegally. People in category (a) can apply for green cards in many situations (e.g. marriage, or employment sponsorship after getting TPS) that those in (b) can't. Often times the wider public is not aware of this distinction.

MisterSandman 5y ago

As an Indian, it's depressing to see how long it takes to get something like a green card, and even more depressing when I realize that I probably can't even pull this off due to my country of origin. I gave up on a top CS university in the US when I realized that even doing everything right could mean that I could be kicked out of the country after the elections or another 9/11. I'm still happy where I'm at, and I know I'm in an incredibly privileged position... but it just sucks.

bgdam 5y ago
As an Indian, your path to staying in the US without worries about being kicked out is to get a Canadian citizenship. It can be done as early as 3 years, and then as a Canadian, you can cross over to the US as and when required.
- MisterSandman 5y ago
  Not sure if you read my past posts, or this is just a massive coincidence, but I did end up choosing a Canadian University. Hoping to graduate with a decent enough job to get PR and then Citizenship. :fingers_crossed: