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I don’t know why so many comments are railing against the characterization of fatherhood as being a ‘long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.’ If you’re

I don’t know why so many comments are railing against the characterization of fatherhood as being a ‘long, emotional, draining, and lonely journey.’ If you’re a father and have never experienced any of that then bully for you. I have. I can absolutely say that fatherhood is the biggest blessing of my life next to my marriage and I also agree with the quote. It’s possible for something to be both a blessing and difficult, draining, and all the rest.

watwut 5y ago
> If you’re a father and have never experienced any of that then bully for you I guess this was autocorrect, did you mean "good" or something else?
- tfehring 5y ago
  "Bully for you" is an idiom that basically means "good for you" https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bully+for+you https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bully+for+you!
- farleykr 5y ago
  Bully for you is just a figure of speech that means ‘good for you’ with a touch of irony. Got it from the Ron Swanson character in Parks and Rec.
  - watwut 5y ago
    Ah, thank you.
- technothrasher 5y ago
  Bully as an adjective means "good". It's mostly archaic at this point, but you do still hear people use the idiom "bully for you" occasionally. Theodore Roosevelt liked to use the adjective, and he is where the term "bully pulpit" came from.
RHSeeger 5y ago
I like to say that being a parent didn't make me happier on a day to day basis, but it made me more fulfilled; which makes me happier overall. Long term enjoyment of my life, vs short term enjoyment of any one day.
- farleykr 5y ago
  That's a good way to put it. I think there's also an element of sacrifice if you're even at least trying to be a good parent. And I'm more and more convinced that sacrifice is the ultimate source of fulfillment, as counterintuitive as that might sound.
- tharne 5y ago
  This is my experience exactly. Very well stated.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  In my case it did make me happier day to day, and also waaaay more fulfilled. I wish I had kids earlier.
  - farleykr 5y ago
    How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? I wonder if a lot of opposing and strong opinions in this thread are due to different parenting experiences at different ages (of parents and children). I've been a dad for almost six years now and I think that's long enough to say there are definitely different experiences at different years and stages of growth and development.
    - moralestapia 5y ago
      5 y/o but it's been good all the time, hope it goes on like this :)
pbarondadditude 5y ago
Thanks. Beautiful articulation. We've spoken to countless father support organizations over the past year (local, online) and these are the 4 most accurate words I could find to describe the stories I've heard. This article helps understand the state of affairs for dads right now (and by all means, it's not any better for moms - it's worse) https://www.parents.com/parenting/dads/sad-dads/ https://www.parents.com/parenting/dads/sad-dads/ "A 2014 study published in Pediatrics found that depression among new dads increases by 68 percent during the first five years of Baby's life." In 2014, when dads were barely starting to become a serious subject of academic research...
- farleykr 5y ago
  I'll check out that article. I'd like to commend Anthony Bradley's work to you. It's a tangent to what you're working on. He focuses a lot on the relationship between fathers and sons specifically but I'm sure you'd find lots of interesting stuff on his socials, podcast, etc. https://twitter.com/drantbradley https://twitter.com/drantbradley
  - pbarondadditude 5y ago
    Thank you, will take a look. This entire project has been so eye opening. Helping me see fatherhood from more than my little corner. And things are even more fascinating when you look at the dynamics around men and fathers in other countries and cultures.
tfehring 5y ago
I don't know about "lonely," but I feel bad for the partner of any parent who's never found parenthood to be difficult or emotionally draining, since I think the most likely explanation is that that parent isn't pulling their weight.
- wonderwonder 5y ago
  I pretty much lost all my friends once I had kids. I could not figure out how to balance working, being a father and having a social life. So the social life lost out. Its been 10 years and I have still not found the time to get new friends and not even sure I would know how now. Pretty much entirely related to having kids. Don't get me wrong, would not change a thing as far as my kids go and most of it is on me for not being able to figure it out but it definitely led to loneliness on my part.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    Are your kids involved in sports or group activities? For me, after I had kids, almost all my non-work social interaction was with parents of other kids who were involved in the same activities. No, once you are a parent, you are not spending Friday night at a bar with your buddies. That part of your life is over (at least until your kids are grown).
  - pbarondadditude 5y ago
    Thanks for sharing. Feels very relatable, including "would not change a thing as far as my kids go". There is lies some of the challenge isn't it? Which leads to the feeling of gilt that has come out in our discussions with dads. "How can this be the happiest time of my life and also the hardest?" And since they don't have the outlet to share this, they keep that to themselves, with adverse consequences.
  - _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
    I don't want to pry but did you lose those friends or was it a pause in your relationship? I had kids earlier than most of my friends, and like you, my social life got put on hold. Now that the kids are older, I've been able to get together with those friends again - although the burden is often on them now to work around kids' schedules.
skeeter2020 5y ago
Is "lonely" one of the top 4 adjectives you'd pick to describe fatherhood? top 25? Maybe if they've described the costs in terms of benefits (as you did) it would be more accurate; I think they might mean it CAN BE emotional, draining, (still not sure about lonely) AT TIMES. If I was betting on it I'd guess they came to this characterization while trying to come up with their call to action, (probably subconsciously). Nothing sinister just off the mark.
- farleykr 5y ago
  I think it depends on how you interpret lonely. I've always had a great support system in family and friends so I haven't been physically lonely. But feeling a sense of failure or that I'm dealing with a specific issue that no one around me understands does make me feel lonely or isolated. From other comments in the thread I got the impression that OP has done a lot of research that led them to use "lonely" as one of the main emotions worth mentioning in their pitch.

watwut 5y ago

> If you’re a father and have never experienced any of that then bully for you I guess this was autocorrect, did you mean "good" or something else?

tfehring 5y ago
"Bully for you" is an idiom that basically means "good for you" https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bully+for+you https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/Bully+for+you!
farleykr 5y ago
Bully for you is just a figure of speech that means ‘good for you’ with a touch of irony. Got it from the Ron Swanson character in Parks and Rec.
- watwut 5y ago
  Ah, thank you.
technothrasher 5y ago
Bully as an adjective means "good". It's mostly archaic at this point, but you do still hear people use the idiom "bully for you" occasionally. Theodore Roosevelt liked to use the adjective, and he is where the term "bully pulpit" came from.

RHSeeger 5y ago

I like to say that being a parent didn't make me happier on a day to day basis, but it made me more fulfilled; which makes me happier overall. Long term enjoyment of my life, vs short term enjoyment of any one day.

farleykr 5y ago
That's a good way to put it. I think there's also an element of sacrifice if you're even at least trying to be a good parent. And I'm more and more convinced that sacrifice is the ultimate source of fulfillment, as counterintuitive as that might sound.
tharne 5y ago
This is my experience exactly. Very well stated.
moralestapia 5y ago
In my case it did make me happier day to day, and also waaaay more fulfilled. I wish I had kids earlier.
- farleykr 5y ago
  How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? I wonder if a lot of opposing and strong opinions in this thread are due to different parenting experiences at different ages (of parents and children). I've been a dad for almost six years now and I think that's long enough to say there are definitely different experiences at different years and stages of growth and development.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    5 y/o but it's been good all the time, hope it goes on like this :)

pbarondadditude 5y ago

Thanks. Beautiful articulation. We've spoken to countless father support organizations over the past year (local, online) and these are the 4 most accurate words I could find to describe the stories I've heard. This article helps understand the state of affairs for dads right now (and by all means, it's not any better for moms - it's worse) https://www.parents.com/parenting/dads/sad-dads/ https://www.parents.com/parenting/dads/sad-dads/ "A 2014 study published in Pediatrics found that depression among new dads increases by 68 percent during the first five years of Baby's life." In 2014, when dads were barely starting to become a serious subject of academic research...

farleykr 5y ago
I'll check out that article. I'd like to commend Anthony Bradley's work to you. It's a tangent to what you're working on. He focuses a lot on the relationship between fathers and sons specifically but I'm sure you'd find lots of interesting stuff on his socials, podcast, etc. https://twitter.com/drantbradley https://twitter.com/drantbradley
- pbarondadditude 5y ago
  Thank you, will take a look. This entire project has been so eye opening. Helping me see fatherhood from more than my little corner. And things are even more fascinating when you look at the dynamics around men and fathers in other countries and cultures.

tfehring 5y ago

I don't know about "lonely," but I feel bad for the partner of any parent who's never found parenthood to be difficult or emotionally draining, since I think the most likely explanation is that that parent isn't pulling their weight.

wonderwonder 5y ago
I pretty much lost all my friends once I had kids. I could not figure out how to balance working, being a father and having a social life. So the social life lost out. Its been 10 years and I have still not found the time to get new friends and not even sure I would know how now. Pretty much entirely related to having kids. Don't get me wrong, would not change a thing as far as my kids go and most of it is on me for not being able to figure it out but it definitely led to loneliness on my part.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  Are your kids involved in sports or group activities? For me, after I had kids, almost all my non-work social interaction was with parents of other kids who were involved in the same activities. No, once you are a parent, you are not spending Friday night at a bar with your buddies. That part of your life is over (at least until your kids are grown).
- pbarondadditude 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing. Feels very relatable, including "would not change a thing as far as my kids go". There is lies some of the challenge isn't it? Which leads to the feeling of gilt that has come out in our discussions with dads. "How can this be the happiest time of my life and also the hardest?" And since they don't have the outlet to share this, they keep that to themselves, with adverse consequences.
- _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
  I don't want to pry but did you lose those friends or was it a pause in your relationship? I had kids earlier than most of my friends, and like you, my social life got put on hold. Now that the kids are older, I've been able to get together with those friends again - although the burden is often on them now to work around kids' schedules.

skeeter2020 5y ago

Is "lonely" one of the top 4 adjectives you'd pick to describe fatherhood? top 25? Maybe if they've described the costs in terms of benefits (as you did) it would be more accurate; I think they might mean it CAN BE emotional, draining, (still not sure about lonely) AT TIMES. If I was betting on it I'd guess they came to this characterization while trying to come up with their call to action, (probably subconsciously). Nothing sinister just off the mark.

farleykr 5y ago
I think it depends on how you interpret lonely. I've always had a great support system in family and friends so I haven't been physically lonely. But feeling a sense of failure or that I'm dealing with a specific issue that no one around me understands does make me feel lonely or isolated. From other comments in the thread I got the impression that OP has done a lot of research that led them to use "lonely" as one of the main emotions worth mentioning in their pitch.