3 ms·

>Population wide benefits without population wide taxing power will never work. Net benefit recipients will move in and net benefit payers will move out. Taxin

>Population wide benefits without population wide taxing power will never work. Net benefit recipients will move in and net benefit payers will move out. Taxing some or all of the middle/upper class to pay for healthcare of those who aren't paying taxes, is exactly this. Also California's tax burden is nearly double that of the least burdensome states. Clearly there's something more at play here than merely the fear people will move out of California; California has demonstrated clearly they aren't terribly worried about the effects of higher taxation on emigration.

jefurii 5y ago
It's untrue to say that lower classes are not paying taxes. They can't access the array of techniques the wealthy use to avoid paying their fair share. Undocumented people in particular pay into the system by having social security and other taxes deducted from their wages even though they will never be able to access the services because of their status.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
The US federal government spends $766B for Medicare + $571B for Medicaid, a sum of $1.337T out of a total $6.011T that will be spent in 2022. This does not even include the healthcare spending of Tricare and other federal government employees' healthcare, and it does not account for things like deductibles and copays and insurance premiums. https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305789#toc-spending https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305... And that is only for old people, (very) poor people, and employees of the federal government. Paying for every person's healthcare within a given jurisdiction would blow a massive hole in governments' budgets that I would bet even people willing to pay extra CA taxes would notice, which are currently probably only 10% to 15% extra compared to other locales. Granted this increase would be offset by not needing to pay insurance premiums or Medicare tax, but in turn, that would be offset by the additional deductible/copay expenses, plus people simply getting more healthcare because they no longer have to worry about the cost. Note that Vermont tried and called it quits after a couple years for the same reasons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform For one more data point, I recall how much consternation the Affordable Care Act caused, and that one merely allowed poor people to access SOME part of healthcare. The outcry over increased health insurance premiums (a proxy for taxes) because people would now be paying to subsidize old people and sick people was and is massive.

jefurii 5y ago

It's untrue to say that lower classes are not paying taxes. They can't access the array of techniques the wealthy use to avoid paying their fair share. Undocumented people in particular pay into the system by having social security and other taxes deducted from their wages even though they will never be able to access the services because of their status.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

The US federal government spends $766B for Medicare + $571B for Medicaid, a sum of $1.337T out of a total $6.011T that will be spent in 2022. This does not even include the healthcare spending of Tricare and other federal government employees' healthcare, and it does not account for things like deductibles and copays and insurance premiums. https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305789#toc-spending https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305... And that is only for old people, (very) poor people, and employees of the federal government. Paying for every person's healthcare within a given jurisdiction would blow a massive hole in governments' budgets that I would bet even people willing to pay extra CA taxes would notice, which are currently probably only 10% to 15% extra compared to other locales. Granted this increase would be offset by not needing to pay insurance premiums or Medicare tax, but in turn, that would be offset by the additional deductible/copay expenses, plus people simply getting more healthcare because they no longer have to worry about the cost. Note that Vermont tried and called it quits after a couple years for the same reasons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform For one more data point, I recall how much consternation the Affordable Care Act caused, and that one merely allowed poor people to access SOME part of healthcare. The outcry over increased health insurance premiums (a proxy for taxes) because people would now be paying to subsidize old people and sick people was and is massive.