5 ms·

Seriously, Tesla's autopilot rolls through stop signs because everyone does. How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sig

Seriously, Tesla's autopilot rolls through stop signs because everyone does. How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? It feels like enforcing this behavior is more dangerous than letting it slide. It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, where the speed limit should clearly be adjusted. The accidents that occur from drivers not being able to stop for a slow car in time, drivers getting annoyed and attempting to overtake, or drivers causing road rage incidents will dwarf whatever crash rate you'd get by just letting the car go faster.

jjnoakes 5y ago
Who is just driving into cars at stop signs because they stop for an extra two seconds?
- baggy_trough 5y ago
  Robots who do not follow traffic norms will quickly become infuriating.
  - pc86 5y ago
    Not an answer to the question.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    Anyone who advocates that not stopping a car at stop signs is a "norm" should be launched directly into the sun. This is why traffic deaths in the U.S. are 40k/year and increasing at 15% per year.
    - baggy_trough 5y ago
      If you think a rolling stop warrants being launched into the sun, well, I will have to question your good judgement, or perhaps whether or not you have actually driven a car before.
    - Amezarak 5y ago
      The increase has more to do with cellphones, but people don’t want to talk about that because there’s a very simple, easy fix - it would just cost advertisers and anger people who couldn’t use their phone in the car anymore.
- nexuist 5y ago
  Ask my dad or the variety of people in your life that have had it happen to them. I guarantee you know people this has happened to. Have you never heard of getting rear ended?
  - notreallyserio 5y ago
    Of course. Although most rear-ending I've seen is on highways when drivers (that shouldn't be on the road) fail to leave adequate distance in front of them.
  - mrtranscendence 5y ago
    > I guarantee you know people this has happened to. I'm unaware of anyone I know around here ever getting rear-ended because someone stopped at a stop sign. Granted, the culture here is to actually stop at each stop sign, so, you know, it's expected that people will actually stop and not just assumed that they're going to roll through.
  - jjnoakes 5y ago
    > Ask my dad or the variety of people in your life that have had it happen to them Every rear-end accident I've ever been aware of at a stop sign would have happened whether the person in front stopped for 2 seconds, 5 seconds, or 7 seconds. They were all due to the person in the back not paying attention and not driving safely. Whether the person in the front did a slow 5 second rolling stop or a 5-7 second full stop has never been relevant.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Related situation, but not quite the same: I know someone who wrote off their car on the A14 near Cambridge (UK) because they weren’t paying attention in stop-start traffic and rear-ended the one in front. Ironically, she hates Elon Musk and everything he does, so memes about how self driving cars are a terrible idea.
  - foobarian 5y ago
    You know what is really ironic? If this person was in a Tesla or similar car with obstacle detection the car would have never let them rear end the one in front in stop-and-go traffic.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      That’s the point ;)
      - foobarian 5y ago
        Too subtle for this sleep deprived brain. Cheers to you sir :-)
kspacewalk2 5y ago
So Tesla is supposed to mimic bad driving of bad drivers? Whatever happened to the promised Age of Road Safety, brought about by smart AI whose ability to make decisions is so much better than the useless chunks of meat menacing our roads today? >How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? So bad drivers roll through stop signs, and this behaviour is somehow at equilibrium with terrible drivers who follow too closely and are thus perpetually on the verge of rear-ending someone? Best not upset this equilibrium, it clearly works so well! >It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Of course it is. Can't wait for speeding self-driving cars taking out cyclists or pedestrians. Whaddaya want from me, I put it in 'hurry mode' because I've got places to be! >Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, where the speed limit should clearly be adjusted. The accidents that occur from drivers not being able to stop for a slow car in time, drivers getting annoyed and attempting to overtake, or drivers causing road rage incidents will dwarf whatever crash rate you'd get by just letting the car go faster. Speeders that endanger lives of everyone not currently inside a car, now embedded in an efficient algorithm. Whatever could go wrong? My North American barely liveable city is gonna be so much better for it!
- nexuist 5y ago
  Tesla is supposed to mimic human driving so its cars are predictable to other human drivers. What's the point of driving safely if it gets you in an accident? > Speeders that endanger lives of everyone not currently inside a car, now embedded in an efficient algorithm Maybe pedestrians should be voting to improve public transportation instead of trying to walk in roads clearly not meant for pedestrians. Has nobody heard of trains or buses? How is it a solution to make every car go 25 mph just in case some random person decides to jaywalk?
  - kspacewalk2 5y ago
    >Tesla is supposed to mimic human driving so its cars are predictable to other human drivers. Great! I don't roll or blow through stops, follow too closely or speed by more than 5 kmh within city limits. I drive carefully and defensively, avoiding dangerous manoeuvres, especially when a driver close to me seems erratic (for example, blows through a stop sign, speeds or follows too closely). Tesla should mimic my driving. Pedestrians should be voting to improve public transportation in addition to improving walkability of their neighbourhoods, not instead of that. >How is it a solution to make every car go 25 mph just in case some random person decides to jaywalk? In my Canadian province, crossing mid-block is perfectly legal as long as you yield to traffic, and 'jaywalking' is not a legal concept. Slowing cars down is safer not just because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting pedestrians when they cross incorrectly. It is also safer because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting pedestrians when they cross correctly, or walk on a sidewalk. It is also safer because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting cyclists and other cars. Highways should be designed for speed, whereas streets should be designed for safety at the expense of speed. Besides, when a city gets above a certain size and is not missing traffic lights where they should be, speeding within city limits is often quite a futile endeavour. I can't tell you how many times I see drivers who go 70 in a 50 kmh zone zoom past me, just to be waiting at the next light, or the one after that as I pull up after going 55 kmh the whole way. I won't lie, it can be amusing. If self-driving cars just emulate the stupid, dangerous and illogical habits of human drivers, then to hell with self-driving cars, and you can bet I'll be voting for that.
klyrs 5y ago
> How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? Probably not many, and they'll mostly be low-speed. And the person who follows to closely and doesn't brake at stop lights is 100% at fault in that situation. Why blame Tesla for following the law? If you think the law is stupid, get the vote out and change it. I once got pulled over for driving 5 over the limit. There was a squadron of tens of motorcycle cops who pulled everybody over. I challenged the ticket in court, complaining that one cannot drive the speed limit on that road without other drivers getting aggro, and that I was driving with the flow of traffic. The judge did not care. He said it's my responsibility to follow the law. So, good luck.

jjnoakes 5y ago

Who is just driving into cars at stop signs because they stop for an extra two seconds?

baggy_trough 5y ago
Robots who do not follow traffic norms will quickly become infuriating.
- pc86 5y ago
  Not an answer to the question.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Anyone who advocates that not stopping a car at stop signs is a "norm" should be launched directly into the sun. This is why traffic deaths in the U.S. are 40k/year and increasing at 15% per year.
  - baggy_trough 5y ago
    If you think a rolling stop warrants being launched into the sun, well, I will have to question your good judgement, or perhaps whether or not you have actually driven a car before.
  - Amezarak 5y ago
    The increase has more to do with cellphones, but people don’t want to talk about that because there’s a very simple, easy fix - it would just cost advertisers and anger people who couldn’t use their phone in the car anymore.
nexuist 5y ago
Ask my dad or the variety of people in your life that have had it happen to them. I guarantee you know people this has happened to. Have you never heard of getting rear ended?
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  Of course. Although most rear-ending I've seen is on highways when drivers (that shouldn't be on the road) fail to leave adequate distance in front of them.
- mrtranscendence 5y ago
  > I guarantee you know people this has happened to. I'm unaware of anyone I know around here ever getting rear-ended because someone stopped at a stop sign. Granted, the culture here is to actually stop at each stop sign, so, you know, it's expected that people will actually stop and not just assumed that they're going to roll through.
- jjnoakes 5y ago
  > Ask my dad or the variety of people in your life that have had it happen to them Every rear-end accident I've ever been aware of at a stop sign would have happened whether the person in front stopped for 2 seconds, 5 seconds, or 7 seconds. They were all due to the person in the back not paying attention and not driving safely. Whether the person in the front did a slow 5 second rolling stop or a 5-7 second full stop has never been relevant.
ben_w 5y ago
Related situation, but not quite the same: I know someone who wrote off their car on the A14 near Cambridge (UK) because they weren’t paying attention in stop-start traffic and rear-ended the one in front. Ironically, she hates Elon Musk and everything he does, so memes about how self driving cars are a terrible idea.
- foobarian 5y ago
  You know what is really ironic? If this person was in a Tesla or similar car with obstacle detection the car would have never let them rear end the one in front in stop-and-go traffic.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    That’s the point ;)
    - foobarian 5y ago
      Too subtle for this sleep deprived brain. Cheers to you sir :-)

kspacewalk2 5y ago

So Tesla is supposed to mimic bad driving of bad drivers? Whatever happened to the promised Age of Road Safety, brought about by smart AI whose ability to make decisions is so much better than the useless chunks of meat menacing our roads today? >How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? So bad drivers roll through stop signs, and this behaviour is somehow at equilibrium with terrible drivers who follow too closely and are thus perpetually on the verge of rear-ending someone? Best not upset this equilibrium, it clearly works so well! >It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Of course it is. Can't wait for speeding self-driving cars taking out cyclists or pedestrians. Whaddaya want from me, I put it in 'hurry mode' because I've got places to be! >Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, where the speed limit should clearly be adjusted. The accidents that occur from drivers not being able to stop for a slow car in time, drivers getting annoyed and attempting to overtake, or drivers causing road rage incidents will dwarf whatever crash rate you'd get by just letting the car go faster. Speeders that endanger lives of everyone not currently inside a car, now embedded in an efficient algorithm. Whatever could go wrong? My North American barely liveable city is gonna be so much better for it!

nexuist 5y ago
Tesla is supposed to mimic human driving so its cars are predictable to other human drivers. What's the point of driving safely if it gets you in an accident? > Speeders that endanger lives of everyone not currently inside a car, now embedded in an efficient algorithm Maybe pedestrians should be voting to improve public transportation instead of trying to walk in roads clearly not meant for pedestrians. Has nobody heard of trains or buses? How is it a solution to make every car go 25 mph just in case some random person decides to jaywalk?
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  >Tesla is supposed to mimic human driving so its cars are predictable to other human drivers. Great! I don't roll or blow through stops, follow too closely or speed by more than 5 kmh within city limits. I drive carefully and defensively, avoiding dangerous manoeuvres, especially when a driver close to me seems erratic (for example, blows through a stop sign, speeds or follows too closely). Tesla should mimic my driving. Pedestrians should be voting to improve public transportation in addition to improving walkability of their neighbourhoods, not instead of that. >How is it a solution to make every car go 25 mph just in case some random person decides to jaywalk? In my Canadian province, crossing mid-block is perfectly legal as long as you yield to traffic, and 'jaywalking' is not a legal concept. Slowing cars down is safer not just because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting pedestrians when they cross incorrectly. It is also safer because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting pedestrians when they cross correctly, or walk on a sidewalk. It is also safer because it reduces the likelihood and severity of hitting cyclists and other cars. Highways should be designed for speed, whereas streets should be designed for safety at the expense of speed. Besides, when a city gets above a certain size and is not missing traffic lights where they should be, speeding within city limits is often quite a futile endeavour. I can't tell you how many times I see drivers who go 70 in a 50 kmh zone zoom past me, just to be waiting at the next light, or the one after that as I pull up after going 55 kmh the whole way. I won't lie, it can be amusing. If self-driving cars just emulate the stupid, dangerous and illogical habits of human drivers, then to hell with self-driving cars, and you can bet I'll be voting for that.

klyrs 5y ago

> How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? Probably not many, and they'll mostly be low-speed. And the person who follows to closely and doesn't brake at stop lights is 100% at fault in that situation. Why blame Tesla for following the law? If you think the law is stupid, get the vote out and change it. I once got pulled over for driving 5 over the limit. There was a squadron of tens of motorcycle cops who pulled everybody over. I challenged the ticket in court, complaining that one cannot drive the speed limit on that road without other drivers getting aggro, and that I was driving with the flow of traffic. The judge did not care. He said it's my responsibility to follow the law. So, good luck.