11 ms·

I should be able to roll stops signs without issue on my bicycle if Teslas are able to do it.

by gr1zzlybe4r 5y ago

whynotkeithberg 5y ago
Pretty sure most of you do....
- quantified 5y ago
  We do. But let’s be real. I would say less than 5% of drivers fully stop where I am now, and from living in Boston for a while 0% there. Cue the Boston driver jokes on the Tesla, but that’s just really bad driving there. I do not expect them to get usable self-driving for another 10-15 years at least.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    Why is the Boston driver thing such a meme? The NHTSA Region 1, which is New England, has the fewest traffic fatalities per capita and per vehicle-mile. Florida, Texas, and California are twice as bad.
    - quantified 5y ago
      It’s the only place where a driver has waved a vodka (or other clear spirits, didn’t get a taste) bottle at me on a highway. YMMV.
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        Plain old drunk driving seems civilized compared to the rest of the country. Let me know if you see some clown in a monster truck brandishing a Glock in Boston.
  - foobarian 5y ago
    Why would I stop if I can clearly see there is no one coming from the other directions? I drive a stick shift too so it helps to be able to keep some non-zero momentum. This is completely disconnected from the stereotypical bad driver barreling through the intersection completely unaware there is a stop sign at all. It's a different story on 4-way stop intersections. You look at who is where, which order they stopped in, and go when it's your turn. The real bottom line ultimately is, are the average accident rates up or not?
- nexuist 5y ago
  Seriously, Tesla's autopilot rolls through stop signs because everyone does. How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? It feels like enforcing this behavior is more dangerous than letting it slide. It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, where the speed limit should clearly be adjusted. The accidents that occur from drivers not being able to stop for a slow car in time, drivers getting annoyed and attempting to overtake, or drivers causing road rage incidents will dwarf whatever crash rate you'd get by just letting the car go faster.
  - jjnoakes 5y ago
    Who is just driving into cars at stop signs because they stop for an extra two seconds?
    - baggy_trough 5y ago
      Robots who do not follow traffic norms will quickly become infuriating.
      - pc86 5y ago
        Not an answer to the question.
      - jeffbee 5y ago
        Anyone who advocates that not stopping a car at stop signs is a "norm" should be launched directly into the sun. This is why traffic deaths in the U.S. are 40k/year and increasing at 15% per year.
        baggy_trough 5y ago
        If you think a rolling stop warrants being launched into the sun, well, I will have to question your good judgement, or perhaps whether or not you have actually driven a car before.
- matsemann 5y ago
  If a bicyclist does something wrong, all cyclists are bad. If a driver does something stupid, that driver is stupid. People complain daily about the bad drivers they face during their commute. But that's quickly forgotten. That one time a cyclist did something wrong, however, is etched into memory. Drivers (not cars) kill an incredible amount of people every year, while cyclists virtually none. Cars pollute, make noise, destroys cities. And still, people go out of their way to harass cyclists every chance they get. Weird how that works.
  - tsunamifury 5y ago
    Sure there are bad drivers but in SF bad cyclists are a matter of routine. Blowing stop signs, red lights at full speed, weaving through cross traffic and riding on pedestrian sidewalks at speed are not regular occurrences for car drivers. Sure I want a full biking city and what not but the cyclists here are such a bad testimony to everyone else that it starts this strong negativity. Being jerks to the pedestrians and the drivers earns you few allies.
    - matsemann 5y ago
      You're kinda proving my point, though, by your sweeping generalizations... Why do the cars get a pass for all bad stuff they cause?
      - apeace 5y ago
        If SF is anything like NYC, GP is right to make sweeping generalizations. Cyclists do not follow the rules of the road here. They simply don't. In particular, they go through red lights as if they don't exist. As a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk -- with the cross signal -- you still need to look left and right for bicycles. I don't see cars running red lights too often, but bicycles are a constant threat. And they are silent and sometimes hard to see. To be fair, this report[1] from 2018 shows the disparity in injuries caused by bicycles (134) versus cars (2,272). With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for me to be complaining about the bicycles. At the same time, there's a reason these statistics don't match my experience and the experience of many others. I dodge bicycles every day and don't get injured, probably because they're relatively easy to dodge most of the time. I've been hit by a bicycle twice but never reported it because I wasn't injured enough to seek medical care. I've never had to dodge a car. If you stand on any corner in NYC, you will see cyclists running red lights several times within an hour. You won't see cars doing it as often. So, I think this issue would be solved if the majority of cyclists followed the rules of the road like the majority of drivers do. Until then, people like me are going to keep complaining, despite the apparent damages not being as severe as what cars cause. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-data-report-2018.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-da...
hprotagonist 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Legality_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Legality_by_state
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
paxys 5y ago
I have never in my life seen a bicyclist slow down at a stop sign or sometimes even a red light.
- ryan_lane 5y ago
  Someone on a bike isn't very likely to kill someone they didn't happen to see when they roll through a stop sign or light. Also, bikes tend to be slower, and the biker has considerably more visibility than someone in a car. I roll through stop signs on a bike, but when I do so, I know for sure that there's no one around, because I slow down some, look around, and I'm able to properly see everything. I think most bikers stop (or at the very least slow down) for red lights. I don't usually wait for red lights, but unless I'm able to see clearly that it's safe, I'd never just run one, because I'm not suicidal. Again, having much more visibility, and a lot more time to scope out the situation makes this considerably safer for the person on the bike.

I should be able to roll stops signs without issue on my bicycle if Teslas are able to do it.

whynotkeithberg 5y ago

Pretty sure most of you do....

quantified 5y ago
We do. But let’s be real. I would say less than 5% of drivers fully stop where I am now, and from living in Boston for a while 0% there. Cue the Boston driver jokes on the Tesla, but that’s just really bad driving there. I do not expect them to get usable self-driving for another 10-15 years at least.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  Why is the Boston driver thing such a meme? The NHTSA Region 1, which is New England, has the fewest traffic fatalities per capita and per vehicle-mile. Florida, Texas, and California are twice as bad.
  - quantified 5y ago
    It’s the only place where a driver has waved a vodka (or other clear spirits, didn’t get a taste) bottle at me on a highway. YMMV.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      Plain old drunk driving seems civilized compared to the rest of the country. Let me know if you see some clown in a monster truck brandishing a Glock in Boston.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Why would I stop if I can clearly see there is no one coming from the other directions? I drive a stick shift too so it helps to be able to keep some non-zero momentum. This is completely disconnected from the stereotypical bad driver barreling through the intersection completely unaware there is a stop sign at all. It's a different story on 4-way stop intersections. You look at who is where, which order they stopped in, and go when it's your turn. The real bottom line ultimately is, are the average accident rates up or not?
nexuist 5y ago
Seriously, Tesla's autopilot rolls through stop signs because everyone does. How many people are going to get rear ended because every Tesla stops at a stop sign now? It feels like enforcing this behavior is more dangerous than letting it slide. It's the same with following the speed limit on roads where everyone speeds. Nobody is going to like self driving cars if they're going 25 on a road where everyone goes 40, where the speed limit should clearly be adjusted. The accidents that occur from drivers not being able to stop for a slow car in time, drivers getting annoyed and attempting to overtake, or drivers causing road rage incidents will dwarf whatever crash rate you'd get by just letting the car go faster.
- jjnoakes 5y ago
  Who is just driving into cars at stop signs because they stop for an extra two seconds?
  - baggy_trough 5y ago
    Robots who do not follow traffic norms will quickly become infuriating.
    - pc86 5y ago
      Not an answer to the question.
    - jeffbee 5y ago
      Anyone who advocates that not stopping a car at stop signs is a "norm" should be launched directly into the sun. This is why traffic deaths in the U.S. are 40k/year and increasing at 15% per year.
      - baggy_trough 5y ago
        If you think a rolling stop warrants being launched into the sun, well, I will have to question your good judgement, or perhaps whether or not you have actually driven a car before.
matsemann 5y ago
If a bicyclist does something wrong, all cyclists are bad. If a driver does something stupid, that driver is stupid. People complain daily about the bad drivers they face during their commute. But that's quickly forgotten. That one time a cyclist did something wrong, however, is etched into memory. Drivers (not cars) kill an incredible amount of people every year, while cyclists virtually none. Cars pollute, make noise, destroys cities. And still, people go out of their way to harass cyclists every chance they get. Weird how that works.
- tsunamifury 5y ago
  Sure there are bad drivers but in SF bad cyclists are a matter of routine. Blowing stop signs, red lights at full speed, weaving through cross traffic and riding on pedestrian sidewalks at speed are not regular occurrences for car drivers. Sure I want a full biking city and what not but the cyclists here are such a bad testimony to everyone else that it starts this strong negativity. Being jerks to the pedestrians and the drivers earns you few allies.
  - matsemann 5y ago
    You're kinda proving my point, though, by your sweeping generalizations... Why do the cars get a pass for all bad stuff they cause?
    - apeace 5y ago
      If SF is anything like NYC, GP is right to make sweeping generalizations. Cyclists do not follow the rules of the road here. They simply don't. In particular, they go through red lights as if they don't exist. As a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk -- with the cross signal -- you still need to look left and right for bicycles. I don't see cars running red lights too often, but bicycles are a constant threat. And they are silent and sometimes hard to see. To be fair, this report[1] from 2018 shows the disparity in injuries caused by bicycles (134) versus cars (2,272). With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for me to be complaining about the bicycles. At the same time, there's a reason these statistics don't match my experience and the experience of many others. I dodge bicycles every day and don't get injured, probably because they're relatively easy to dodge most of the time. I've been hit by a bicycle twice but never reported it because I wasn't injured enough to seek medical care. I've never had to dodge a car. If you stand on any corner in NYC, you will see cyclists running red lights several times within an hour. You won't see cars doing it as often. So, I think this issue would be solved if the majority of cyclists followed the rules of the road like the majority of drivers do. Until then, people like me are going to keep complaining, despite the apparent damages not being as severe as what cars cause. [1] https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-data-report-2018.pdf https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/bicycle-crash-da...

hprotagonist 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Legality_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop#Legality_by_state

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

paxys 5y ago

I have never in my life seen a bicyclist slow down at a stop sign or sometimes even a red light.

ryan_lane 5y ago
Someone on a bike isn't very likely to kill someone they didn't happen to see when they roll through a stop sign or light. Also, bikes tend to be slower, and the biker has considerably more visibility than someone in a car. I roll through stop signs on a bike, but when I do so, I know for sure that there's no one around, because I slow down some, look around, and I'm able to properly see everything. I think most bikers stop (or at the very least slow down) for red lights. I don't usually wait for red lights, but unless I'm able to see clearly that it's safe, I'd never just run one, because I'm not suicidal. Again, having much more visibility, and a lot more time to scope out the situation makes this considerably safer for the person on the bike.