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I think we're mostly in agreement here. > What is this example supposed to show? It's an analogy, not an example. It's meant to present a hypothetical, simila

I think we're mostly in agreement here. > What is this example supposed to show? It's an analogy, not an example. It's meant to present a hypothetical, similar situation in another context in order to help people who can't relate to something happening across the world, in a place they've never been, see that situation in a way they can understand. > The saddest part of this example is leaving out the Palestine. It’s very sad that they don’t even get to be part of the example. It's an analogy. If Palestine were literally included, it would no longer be an analogy. > Why can’t Israel leave Palestine alone? Because of the rocket fire and bombings combined with the repeated public stating of a goal to exterminate the state and people of Israel. > Why do they have to incorporate Palestine into Israel? They don't. That just seems like it's one of the only outcomes that allows both groups to share the land they claim. > The one thing that shouldn’t be done is cutting the grass as Israel does now. That's for sure. It's indiscriminate and savage and on top of that counterproductive. Israel has shown time and again that they are capable of surgical military operations in the most hostile of territories. If their intent is truly to reduce the capability of Palestinian fighters to attack Israel, they are more than capable of doing that with minimal loss of life. Unfortunately, Israel has a similar problem to that in the US (another useful commonality in my analogy) in that there is a large hawkish segment of the population and political class who feel justified in punitive military violence. They are gratified in the overwhelmingly disproportionate response to the feeble rocket attacks coming out of Gaza. Again, the specifics of my analogy are chosen advisedly - what I meant to point out was what the world would expect to see if anyone at all fired rockets at Americans. They'd wipe those people off the map. I'm not endorsing that outcome, I'm just pointing out that when the US does it, it's considered de rigueur, but when Israel does it, it's considered barbaric. But can you think of another example, anywhere in the world, where a population are supposed to allow their cities to be literally shelled and attacked with rockets and, as you say, 'Leave the [attackers] alone?' That's not a practical solution. > Israel being able to remain their own country and be prepared and strong. Nothing wrong with that! Why would there be? Agreed. Unfortunately, Palestinian (and their backing Iranian) leadership does not agree.

skinnymuch 5y ago
Yeah you're right. We're essentially entirely in agreement. However, we both see the way Israel [and America and others] are able to use what makes them victims to their advantage. To the point where it is hard to parse through all the data and history of this century and not see it as Israel wants there to always be some one shooting [feeble] rockets into Israel. I didn't cite the "cutting the grass" quote. My bad. I don't want to pick a source that others will view as me being biased. I chose Daily Beast and News Week: "The operative metaphor is often described as “cutting the grass,” meaning a task that must be performed regularly and has no end. There is no solution to security challenges, officials here say, only delays and deterrence....What is "cutting the grass" if not a metaphor for unending conflict?" "Cutting the grass"—reducing or eliminating actual military threats as they emerge in real time—has been Israel's preferred method, and can be coupled with either of the two others." -- > I'm not endorsing that outcome, I'm just pointing out that when the US does it, it's considered de rigueur, but when Israel does it, it's considered barbaric. > barbaric Children keep getting killed :(. I bring up Yemen quite a bit with recent Russia Ukraine talks. You are right, people quickly overlook things like that. I think that's general tribalist behavior. Not because of the US specifically. -- Is this true? The only downvoted comments or attacks I've had on Reddit, HN, IG, & Twitter have all been the few times I've discussed the Palestine conflict. There's only one other instance on Twitter where there was enough attacking on me that I had to step back, which was about local US socioeconomic politics. I'm not active on any social media so the sample size is not big or even moderate, but stretches for a decade. I now never favorite/heart/star/bookmark any Palestinian or Israeli related content on any social media just as a rule of thumb. I had also made it a rule of thumb to never comment on it in public either. I forgot you can't delete HN comments after a short period of time. I co-founded a non-profit, organically growing, camaraderie driven online co-working community. Politics is no place for a community like that, but one off or short discussions can happen. The only topic I can think of that I would never touch with a 10 foot pole in any capacity is Israel/Palestine. AOC had to take back any thing she said about Israel. Ilhan Omar has been skewered so much by a large portion of people, even when Israeli and/or Jewish people defend her, it doesn't count or what have you. I heard of cutting the grass from Noam Chomsky who was citing it from the person who either coined it or coined it for middle eastern politics. It is not uncommon or strange these days that citing Chomsky's, who is Jewish, views on Israel/Palestine can be seen as indicative of being "anti-semitic". Which of course in my case is not true at all. As I've said, I support Israel and Israelis right to their current land. However this also shows why this is such a hard thing to ever bring up.

skinnymuch 5y ago

Yeah you're right. We're essentially entirely in agreement. However, we both see the way Israel [and America and others] are able to use what makes them victims to their advantage. To the point where it is hard to parse through all the data and history of this century and not see it as Israel wants there to always be some one shooting [feeble] rockets into Israel. I didn't cite the "cutting the grass" quote. My bad. I don't want to pick a source that others will view as me being biased. I chose Daily Beast and News Week: "The operative metaphor is often described as “cutting the grass,” meaning a task that must be performed regularly and has no end. There is no solution to security challenges, officials here say, only delays and deterrence....What is "cutting the grass" if not a metaphor for unending conflict?" "Cutting the grass"—reducing or eliminating actual military threats as they emerge in real time—has been Israel's preferred method, and can be coupled with either of the two others." -- > I'm not endorsing that outcome, I'm just pointing out that when the US does it, it's considered de rigueur, but when Israel does it, it's considered barbaric. > barbaric Children keep getting killed :(. I bring up Yemen quite a bit with recent Russia Ukraine talks. You are right, people quickly overlook things like that. I think that's general tribalist behavior. Not because of the US specifically. -- Is this true? The only downvoted comments or attacks I've had on Reddit, HN, IG, & Twitter have all been the few times I've discussed the Palestine conflict. There's only one other instance on Twitter where there was enough attacking on me that I had to step back, which was about local US socioeconomic politics. I'm not active on any social media so the sample size is not big or even moderate, but stretches for a decade. I now never favorite/heart/star/bookmark any Palestinian or Israeli related content on any social media just as a rule of thumb. I had also made it a rule of thumb to never comment on it in public either. I forgot you can't delete HN comments after a short period of time. I co-founded a non-profit, organically growing, camaraderie driven online co-working community. Politics is no place for a community like that, but one off or short discussions can happen. The only topic I can think of that I would never touch with a 10 foot pole in any capacity is Israel/Palestine. AOC had to take back any thing she said about Israel. Ilhan Omar has been skewered so much by a large portion of people, even when Israeli and/or Jewish people defend her, it doesn't count or what have you. I heard of cutting the grass from Noam Chomsky who was citing it from the person who either coined it or coined it for middle eastern politics. It is not uncommon or strange these days that citing Chomsky's, who is Jewish, views on Israel/Palestine can be seen as indicative of being "anti-semitic". Which of course in my case is not true at all. As I've said, I support Israel and Israelis right to their current land. However this also shows why this is such a hard thing to ever bring up.