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I think the point is that megacorps' business structure is way too complex for anyone to actually understand. Why is Gmail free? It makes money for Google, that

by 9dev 5y ago

I think the point is that megacorps' business structure is way too complex for anyone to actually understand. Why is Gmail free? It makes money for Google, that part is clear, but I have no idea how exactly. I'm not even sure they can measure it exactly. Those companies have transformed the internet, and its users, by offering services for free, in exchange for user data. We have raised an entire generation (two, maybe?) of people taking that model for granted, nicely illustrated by completely ad-dependent YouTube superstars. Of course, we cannot simply ban all advertising and start charging for everything. But I'm of the firm opinion that, in order to go forward, we have to leave this business model behind, as humanity. The only way to achieve this is by making it unattractive via legislation.

endisneigh 5y ago
> Of course, we cannot simply ban all advertising and start charging for everything. But I'm of the firm opinion that, in order to go forward, we have to leave this business model behind, as humanity. The only way to achieve this is by making it unattractive via legislation. What exactly are you proposing? Anyone who wants to pay for email can do so already. It's very trivial to not use any of Google's services or be tracked. Install uBlock, and don't go to any Google or subsidiary service. Done. What exactly is the issue?
- 9dev 5y ago
  The issue isn't that I'm personally inconvenienced, this is not about me. It's that the internet is dominated by ad-based companies, and that is not a good thing? I propose that we try to move humanity past this way of generating revenue, because it's wasting productivity and resources, encouraging shady behaviour, and leads to less freedom overall. We have social networks manipulating users into staying on the platforms as long as possible, scrolling down infinite feeds, to expose them to as much advertising as possible, thus wasting productivity. We have big players such as the IAB and its members tracking and spying on users to obtain more data to sell, as an alternative revenue stream to charging for their services. We have quality journalism disappear in favour of whatever generates the most clicks, in order to expose more readers to advertisements. YouTube stars pushing hidden ads on children. Advertisers crossing ever more boundaries of privacy, by aggregating data from thousands of companies, with basically no oversight by anyone. That is the issue. I think we should do something against that, and I think "something" may be to nudge the market into another direction, from ad-based to transaction-based revenue sources.
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  Here's a job. You need a job. It pays in company scrip [1]. People took those jobs despite the negative consequences. The government eventually made such schemes illegal. Your argument is "People have free choice, so anything that they do is legal." The excuse of the perpetrators is "I'm not the one (directly) responsible for your poor economic situation, or your lack of education, so it's fair and moral for me to offer you a terrible proposition that you absolutely would not make if you were in a better economic situation." This is just where extreme capitalism gets you. The list of examples is endless. Scrip. Children working in mines or cleaning chimneys. Click-through TOS. "Free" email. Indentured servitude. At the end of the day it's no different than "You need to get on this boat to america, or this gentleman here is going to cut your wife's throat. Hey, it's not me doing the cutting. I'm the good guy. I'm trying to keep you safe. But its your choice." It really depends on what we mean by "choice". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

by 9dev 5y ago

endisneigh 5y ago

> Of course, we cannot simply ban all advertising and start charging for everything. But I'm of the firm opinion that, in order to go forward, we have to leave this business model behind, as humanity. The only way to achieve this is by making it unattractive via legislation. What exactly are you proposing? Anyone who wants to pay for email can do so already. It's very trivial to not use any of Google's services or be tracked. Install uBlock, and don't go to any Google or subsidiary service. Done. What exactly is the issue?

9dev 5y ago
The issue isn't that I'm personally inconvenienced, this is not about me. It's that the internet is dominated by ad-based companies, and that is not a good thing? I propose that we try to move humanity past this way of generating revenue, because it's wasting productivity and resources, encouraging shady behaviour, and leads to less freedom overall. We have social networks manipulating users into staying on the platforms as long as possible, scrolling down infinite feeds, to expose them to as much advertising as possible, thus wasting productivity. We have big players such as the IAB and its members tracking and spying on users to obtain more data to sell, as an alternative revenue stream to charging for their services. We have quality journalism disappear in favour of whatever generates the most clicks, in order to expose more readers to advertisements. YouTube stars pushing hidden ads on children. Advertisers crossing ever more boundaries of privacy, by aggregating data from thousands of companies, with basically no oversight by anyone. That is the issue. I think we should do something against that, and I think "something" may be to nudge the market into another direction, from ad-based to transaction-based revenue sources.
lowbloodsugar 5y ago
Here's a job. You need a job. It pays in company scrip [1]. People took those jobs despite the negative consequences. The government eventually made such schemes illegal. Your argument is "People have free choice, so anything that they do is legal." The excuse of the perpetrators is "I'm not the one (directly) responsible for your poor economic situation, or your lack of education, so it's fair and moral for me to offer you a terrible proposition that you absolutely would not make if you were in a better economic situation." This is just where extreme capitalism gets you. The list of examples is endless. Scrip. Children working in mines or cleaning chimneys. Click-through TOS. "Free" email. Indentured servitude. At the end of the day it's no different than "You need to get on this boat to america, or this gentleman here is going to cut your wife's throat. Hey, it's not me doing the cutting. I'm the good guy. I'm trying to keep you safe. But its your choice." It really depends on what we mean by "choice". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip