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It’s not suboptimal for the shipbuilders, or any of the thousands of people and hundreds of associated companies all the way down the supply chain. The fact th

by zaroth 5y ago

It’s not suboptimal for the shipbuilders, or any of the thousands of people and hundreds of associated companies all the way down the supply chain. The fact that the end product happens to be a yacht is largely irrelevant to the economic impact and value of this investment. There very well will be hundreds of key innovations and significant investments in R&D, materials science, construction techniques, etc. that stem from the investment made into building this product. The more money Bezos spends the better, and I’m personally glad he’s spending some of it on projects like this. Just because it’s privately owned doesn’t make it any less a of an incredible feat of engineering and accomplishment of human ingenuity. It will also employ hundreds if not thousands of people for years into the future (maintenance is much more expensive than the initial build).

sofixa 5y ago
> There very well will be hundreds of key innovations and significant investments in R&D, materials science, construction techniques, etc. that stem from the investment made into building this product. No? Is there something special about this yacht outside of its size? Why would there be any innovation around it?
- chucksta 5y ago
  Size requires innovation in all kinds of context, this is a narrow view. What about earth moving equipment, skyscrapers, IT systems, etc. ? I'm sure it required at least 1 bit of special tooling, capacity, or engineering. Ignoring downstream innovation challenges, like the bridge. You don't think there is an opportunity for innovation there? Maybe they make improvements when they replace it
  - zaroth 5y ago
    I think it’s common to underestimate the hidden complexity in things. Even the smallest widget can contain surprising amounts of innovation. Take the diminutive Apple iPhone Wall Charger - that little wart is the culmination of decades of safe and efficient AC/DC design. A biggest in the world sailing yacht will have hundreds of innovations just in construction of the masts. All the rigging is likely custom materials and hardware, they are probably using exotic techniques in all sorts of ways.
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      No average sailor will ever use these "innovations" tho. Also you don't necessarily want to innovate too much when you want to build something reliable. Boats at this calibre take months if not years to iron out all the build kinks - it's custom made after all. I'd love someone like Bezos or Musk to build a robotic dry stack of e-boats for public to use by subscription basis - something that can actually take innovating, can be scaled everywhere in the world, has positive impact (grid balancing) and is useful.
vanusa 5y ago
The more money Bezos spends the better, Not if it cranks up the global carbon footprint, and wastes resources better left in the ground. At some people we simply don't need to grant these people the "right" to build whatever ego-inflating toys they want, wherever they want. Useless $500m boats like that simply shouldn't be built.
- zaroth 5y ago
  "Cranks up" the global carbon footprint -- relative to what? "Wastes" resources better left in the ground -- according to whom? You think someone needs to be _granted_ the *right* to research and develop a great feat of human engineering? What it sounds like you're describing is communism, and it's an incredibly destructive and brutal philosophy to try to control people like this. I have no issue with Bezos paying the full share of the net externalities of the project. I suspect a proper accounting would show significant net positive externalities to society, but if the scales were net negative then by all means tax it. I suspect that amount of taxes Bezos will pay all said and done as a result of this project are fairly astronomical. To say that a person has no business or no right or no reason to build something incredible like this is beyond sad, it's a line of thinking that free democracies have gone to war against to protect themselves from. To say this creation should not allowed to be built in any case, is IMO a violation of basic human rights and decency and crushing to the human spirit.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    What I see as "incredibly destructive and brutal" is getting your jollies building useless toys while the planet is dying. When I hear the phrase "violating basic human rights and decency", I think of how this guy runs his warehouses. And letting your people die because you never did preparation drills, and had them come to work during a major storm so your business could save a few pennies. Edwardsville city officials identified the names of the six deceased on Sunday, who ranged in age from 26 to 62. Among the victims identified by authorities was Larry Virden, 46, whose daughter Justice Virden told ABC News' Rob Marciano for "Good Morning America", "I walked out of that building after they told me my dad was gone, and I dropped to my knees and screamed at the sky at the top of my lungs." "I said 'No, my dad's coming home," Justice Virden said. "'I need my daddy. He can't leave.'"
dzhiurgis 5y ago
Innovation is going to be around building more yachts like this, not "budget" $1M 15-meter boats suitable for families sailing around the world. I'd be all in for superyachts like this were they used for public education, tourism, expeditions. Now it's going to just sit with 20 people on crew and be used twice a year. Boats like these spend more on fuel while idling or relocating than when they are actually used by owner. IMHO if you can't handle it by yourself then it's just too big.
vba616 5y ago
I'm going to assume you've heard of the "broken window fallacy" and Eisenhower's speech about defense spending taking away from the hungry, and ask you why the principle doesn't resonate? "The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

by zaroth 5y ago

sofixa 5y ago

> There very well will be hundreds of key innovations and significant investments in R&D, materials science, construction techniques, etc. that stem from the investment made into building this product. No? Is there something special about this yacht outside of its size? Why would there be any innovation around it?

chucksta 5y ago
Size requires innovation in all kinds of context, this is a narrow view. What about earth moving equipment, skyscrapers, IT systems, etc. ? I'm sure it required at least 1 bit of special tooling, capacity, or engineering. Ignoring downstream innovation challenges, like the bridge. You don't think there is an opportunity for innovation there? Maybe they make improvements when they replace it
- zaroth 5y ago
  I think it’s common to underestimate the hidden complexity in things. Even the smallest widget can contain surprising amounts of innovation. Take the diminutive Apple iPhone Wall Charger - that little wart is the culmination of decades of safe and efficient AC/DC design. A biggest in the world sailing yacht will have hundreds of innovations just in construction of the masts. All the rigging is likely custom materials and hardware, they are probably using exotic techniques in all sorts of ways.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    No average sailor will ever use these "innovations" tho. Also you don't necessarily want to innovate too much when you want to build something reliable. Boats at this calibre take months if not years to iron out all the build kinks - it's custom made after all. I'd love someone like Bezos or Musk to build a robotic dry stack of e-boats for public to use by subscription basis - something that can actually take innovating, can be scaled everywhere in the world, has positive impact (grid balancing) and is useful.

vanusa 5y ago

The more money Bezos spends the better, Not if it cranks up the global carbon footprint, and wastes resources better left in the ground. At some people we simply don't need to grant these people the "right" to build whatever ego-inflating toys they want, wherever they want. Useless $500m boats like that simply shouldn't be built.

zaroth 5y ago
"Cranks up" the global carbon footprint -- relative to what? "Wastes" resources better left in the ground -- according to whom? You think someone needs to be _granted_ the *right* to research and develop a great feat of human engineering? What it sounds like you're describing is communism, and it's an incredibly destructive and brutal philosophy to try to control people like this. I have no issue with Bezos paying the full share of the net externalities of the project. I suspect a proper accounting would show significant net positive externalities to society, but if the scales were net negative then by all means tax it. I suspect that amount of taxes Bezos will pay all said and done as a result of this project are fairly astronomical. To say that a person has no business or no right or no reason to build something incredible like this is beyond sad, it's a line of thinking that free democracies have gone to war against to protect themselves from. To say this creation should not allowed to be built in any case, is IMO a violation of basic human rights and decency and crushing to the human spirit.
- vanusa 5y ago
  What I see as "incredibly destructive and brutal" is getting your jollies building useless toys while the planet is dying. When I hear the phrase "violating basic human rights and decency", I think of how this guy runs his warehouses. And letting your people die because you never did preparation drills, and had them come to work during a major storm so your business could save a few pennies. Edwardsville city officials identified the names of the six deceased on Sunday, who ranged in age from 26 to 62. Among the victims identified by authorities was Larry Virden, 46, whose daughter Justice Virden told ABC News' Rob Marciano for "Good Morning America", "I walked out of that building after they told me my dad was gone, and I dropped to my knees and screamed at the sky at the top of my lungs." "I said 'No, my dad's coming home," Justice Virden said. "'I need my daddy. He can't leave.'"

dzhiurgis 5y ago

Innovation is going to be around building more yachts like this, not "budget" $1M 15-meter boats suitable for families sailing around the world. I'd be all in for superyachts like this were they used for public education, tourism, expeditions. Now it's going to just sit with 20 people on crew and be used twice a year. Boats like these spend more on fuel while idling or relocating than when they are actually used by owner. IMHO if you can't handle it by yourself then it's just too big.

vba616 5y ago

I'm going to assume you've heard of the "broken window fallacy" and Eisenhower's speech about defense spending taking away from the hungry, and ask you why the principle doesn't resonate? "The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chance_for_Peace_speech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window