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Germany and France are saying it fairly loudly - they've never hidden their intent to make the EU a federal, unified, state. And with Brexit, the biggest obsta

Germany and France are saying it fairly loudly - they've never hidden their intent to make the EU a federal, unified, state. And with Brexit, the biggest obstacle to that has been removed - the UK never wanted to be part of a Federal EU (because we always considered ourselves part of the British Empire/Commonwealth). There are other EU countries who aren't wildly enthusiastic about a Federal EU too, but it was always the UK being the most loudly opposed to it.

the_biot 5y ago
It's true that the UK was always the biggest opponent, but don't kid yourself that the rest of the EU is on board with federalizing. There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. Just look at what happens whenever some EU treaty needs ratifying by national referendum.
- blibble 5y ago
  > There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. that never stopped it before, just look at the "Constitution for Europe" rejected by the French and Dutch electorates it was then rejigged slightly and then pushed through as the Treaty of Lisbon (without pesky referendums)
  - Macha 5y ago
    The Lisbon Treaty did at least need a referendum in Ireland. It was rejected initially, partially as a warning shot to the then unpopular government between elections, and partially because of genuine concerns about the impact it would have on Ireland's military neutrality and for the concerns that the EU could then impose a minimum corporate tax rate on the country. As a result, the EU agreed a set of guarantees [1] that the Lisbon treaty would not be used to do either of these things (to Ireland specifically), and only then did it pass in Ireland. An EU army has more widespread opposition these days, so hasn't been raised since. Minimum corporate tax rates did not pass through the EU, though this year the US led an effort that is going to result in them globally via other avenues. [1]: https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_Lisbon_Treaty_Explained.pdf https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_L...
kmlx 5y ago
> And with Brexit, the biggest obstacle to that has been removed this is false. very few european countries want a federal, unified state. so nothing of meaning will happen until a lot of things change.

the_biot 5y ago

It's true that the UK was always the biggest opponent, but don't kid yourself that the rest of the EU is on board with federalizing. There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. Just look at what happens whenever some EU treaty needs ratifying by national referendum.

blibble 5y ago
> There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. that never stopped it before, just look at the "Constitution for Europe" rejected by the French and Dutch electorates it was then rejigged slightly and then pushed through as the Treaty of Lisbon (without pesky referendums)
- Macha 5y ago
  The Lisbon Treaty did at least need a referendum in Ireland. It was rejected initially, partially as a warning shot to the then unpopular government between elections, and partially because of genuine concerns about the impact it would have on Ireland's military neutrality and for the concerns that the EU could then impose a minimum corporate tax rate on the country. As a result, the EU agreed a set of guarantees [1] that the Lisbon treaty would not be used to do either of these things (to Ireland specifically), and only then did it pass in Ireland. An EU army has more widespread opposition these days, so hasn't been raised since. Minimum corporate tax rates did not pass through the EU, though this year the US led an effort that is going to result in them globally via other avenues. [1]: https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_Lisbon_Treaty_Explained.pdf https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_L...

kmlx 5y ago

> And with Brexit, the biggest obstacle to that has been removed this is false. very few european countries want a federal, unified state. so nothing of meaning will happen until a lot of things change.