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We designers must reasonably but seriously convey the user-hostility of these patterns to higher-ups at every available opportunity. Sure, you'll get overruled

We designers must reasonably but seriously convey the user-hostility of these patterns to higher-ups at every available opportunity. Sure, you'll get overruled by the dollar-focused Jr. Marketing Exec. On the other hand, the folks who say things like "Refuse! It's a designers job to say no!" probably have much bigger savings accounts than I and most others do... but not saying anything implies consent, and that's when behavior that's bad for your users and bad for the world become a silently absorbed into your corporate praxis.

alkonaut 5y ago
Most large companies have ethics hotlines you are expected to call when there is something questionable ethically or legally going on that might be difficult to bring up to a superior. Personally I'd refuse to add a dark pattern cookie dialog, but I'm in the privileged position of being able to switch jobs. But regardless, I'd probably send the ethics hotline an email saying that regulations are violated. Perhaps I'd send an email to the relevant regulator too, just in case.
- majewsky 5y ago
  Unfortunately the CEO does not report to the ethics hotline.
- chefandy 5y ago
  Weird— I haven't worked for a big software development organization in some time but I've never heard of that. That's a positive thing if the company has good corporate culture and uses the information well instead of just calling your boss and asking them to consider being more ethical because you complained.
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    These things are there so that investor's money are safe. In my case the ethics hotline is above the company, in the owning company (Berkshire). They don't want massive lawsuits, or tarnished brands because of things like VW dieselgate or things like that. And I think a lot of times even minor things can get pretty big consequences if it's actually illegal and not just "well it's a matter if interpretation".
denton-scratch 5y ago
> We designers must [...] This isn't something that's inflicted on us by web developers (on the whole); it's done by accountants. So fines are the most appropriate remedy. No judge wants to impose a fine that bankrupts a company; but fines that start gently, but double after each offence, are much more likely to cause the accountants to smell the coffee.
- chefandy 5y ago
  Absolutely. Ideally it's a policy problem that's all on management which should be too expensive to dissolve into some megacorp's operating budget. Discussing how we can make achievable improvements now is also important.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  It's not really done by accountants either. It's done by executives.
salawat 5y ago
>but not saying anything implies consent... Hey, lets have sex. <Silence> WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT You seem to have gotten confused as to the fundamental nature of consent. See the problem is it isn't put in writing. Putting things in writing gets people to pay attention.
- chefandy 5y ago
  There's a big difference between groups gauging each others' attitudes and individuals communicating specific decisions. Humans instinctively try to be harmonious with their group, and the group not responding to something negative communicates that this group doesn't care about it enough to respond to it. Furthermore, group attitude influencing individual behavior is a well-known facet of humanity. This concept is the foundation of television and other types of advertising.

alkonaut 5y ago

Most large companies have ethics hotlines you are expected to call when there is something questionable ethically or legally going on that might be difficult to bring up to a superior. Personally I'd refuse to add a dark pattern cookie dialog, but I'm in the privileged position of being able to switch jobs. But regardless, I'd probably send the ethics hotline an email saying that regulations are violated. Perhaps I'd send an email to the relevant regulator too, just in case.

majewsky 5y ago
Unfortunately the CEO does not report to the ethics hotline.
chefandy 5y ago
Weird— I haven't worked for a big software development organization in some time but I've never heard of that. That's a positive thing if the company has good corporate culture and uses the information well instead of just calling your boss and asking them to consider being more ethical because you complained.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  These things are there so that investor's money are safe. In my case the ethics hotline is above the company, in the owning company (Berkshire). They don't want massive lawsuits, or tarnished brands because of things like VW dieselgate or things like that. And I think a lot of times even minor things can get pretty big consequences if it's actually illegal and not just "well it's a matter if interpretation".

denton-scratch 5y ago

> We designers must [...] This isn't something that's inflicted on us by web developers (on the whole); it's done by accountants. So fines are the most appropriate remedy. No judge wants to impose a fine that bankrupts a company; but fines that start gently, but double after each offence, are much more likely to cause the accountants to smell the coffee.

chefandy 5y ago
Absolutely. Ideally it's a policy problem that's all on management which should be too expensive to dissolve into some megacorp's operating budget. Discussing how we can make achievable improvements now is also important.
TheCoelacanth 5y ago
It's not really done by accountants either. It's done by executives.

salawat 5y ago

>but not saying anything implies consent... Hey, lets have sex. <Silence> WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT You seem to have gotten confused as to the fundamental nature of consent. See the problem is it isn't put in writing. Putting things in writing gets people to pay attention.

chefandy 5y ago
There's a big difference between groups gauging each others' attitudes and individuals communicating specific decisions. Humans instinctively try to be harmonious with their group, and the group not responding to something negative communicates that this group doesn't care about it enough to respond to it. Furthermore, group attitude influencing individual behavior is a well-known facet of humanity. This concept is the foundation of television and other types of advertising.