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The scary thing is that it's the EU doing this. Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this because it doesn't immed

The scary thing is that it's the EU doing this. Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this because it doesn't immediately win votes, and there is only a limited number of national civil servants so nobody is working on this kind of thing on a national scale. But put those civil servants in a committee in Brussels with not as much short term pressure, and they can work out regulations that achieve the right thing.

ArnoVW 5y ago
There's a bit of that. But I think a big part of the reason is that national governments can not address international issues. The EU represents 300M people, and has the economic and political weight to make a dent. The same goes for other international issues, such as climate change, corporate tax evasion, cyber crime, etc.
- oblio 5y ago
  445 million people.
arlort 5y ago
This is not really accurate. The enforcement of GDPR is still up to national civil services/judiciaries, in this case it was a cooperation of multiple national protection authorities. Even the legislation itself necessarily involved national governments and national civil servants in national ministries GDPR being an EU level legislation has more to do with the absolute nightmare it would be for the internal market to have 27 different standards and the drastically lower leverage available for enforcement than disinterest in the subject
- pseingatl 5y ago
  There's this: • Austria: Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Belgium: algemene verordening gegevensbescherming / règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) • Bulgaria: Общ регламент относно защитата на данните • Croatia: Opća uredba o zaštiti podataka • Cyprus: Γενικός Κανονισμός για την Προστασία Δεδομένων • Czech Republic: obecné nařízení o ochraně osobních údajů • Denmark: generel forordning om databeskyttelse • Estonia: isikuandmete kaitse üldmäärus • Finland: yleinen tietosuoja-asetus • France: règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) • Germany: Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Greece: Γενικός Κανονισμός για την Προστασία Δεδομένων • Hungary: általános adatvédelmi rendelet • Ireland: An Rialachán Ginearálta maidir le Cosaint Sonraí / General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) • Italy: regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati (RGPD) • Latvia: Vispārīgā datu aizsardzības regula • Lithuania: Bendrasis duomenų apsaugos reglamentas (BDAR) • Luxembourg: règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) / Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Malta: Regolament Ġenerali dwar il-Protezzjoni tad-Data • The Netherlands: algemene verordening gegevensbescherming • Poland: ogólne rozporządzenie o ochronie danych • Portugal: Regulamento Geral sobre a Proteção de Dados (RGPD) • Romania: Regulamentul general privind protecția datelor • Slovakia: všeobecné nariadenie o ochrane údajov • Slovenia: Splošna uredba o varstvu podatkov • Spain: Reglamento general de protección de datos (RGPD) • Sweden: Dataskyddsförordning • The United Kingdom: General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)
  - arlort 5y ago
    This is just the translation of GDPR in the EU languages, did you mean to reply under a different comment?
dmitriid 5y ago
> Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this Data protection laws existed before GDPR. GDPR itself is not that different from Swedish data protection laws, for example. Everyone ignored them for years (in case of French laws, for decades, apparently). So, the next step is to pass and enforce the law through the EU.
johannes1234321 5y ago
The "EU doing things" is not detached from your national government. In fact all EU legislation is being approved by your national government in the EU Council and the EU commission has to report there. (As well as the EU parliament, however the EU parliament is weak ...) Edit: maybe as addition in the last point in parentheses: The EU parliament is purposely weak, as the EU is a union of states and the member state government want the power in the council and don't want to give up power.
- the_biot 5y ago
  Well said. I'd add that the EU has for decades been a convenient scapegoat for member governments to point to, when "forced" by the EU to do things that needed doing but are politically difficult. Think of all the national champions forced to live by market rules, like flag carriers, telecom monopolies etc.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  I know that. What I consider "scary" is that the EU can only do this because they're aren't directly elected and so not as subject to the typical democratic pressures. It points at a clear weakness of democracy.
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    Pressure your government to vote "no" on policies you don't like or pressure your government to initiate other legislation. They have the power and responsibility. And yes, I personally would like to have a stronger EU Parliament relative to the Commission and Council. However there is no reason to let the national government escape with "it's EU law" after they approved it. (And yes, Council doesn't require unanimous vote for most items anymore since the Lisbon treaty, thus it is possible your government voted "no", but that then is democracy and they have to convince other governments ...) (Just a side note: I like GDPR and think it is to large parts good and push my government to support it)
    - Scarblac 5y ago
CalRobert 5y ago
If there's one thing you can rely on, it's an Irish enforcement body doing sweet feckall. No wonder they like to use the Irish DPC! The EU is our saving grace far too often.
colechristensen 5y ago
Europe is obviously walking very slowly towards federalism without saying it too loudly.
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  Germany and France are saying it fairly loudly - they've never hidden their intent to make the EU a federal, unified, state. And with Brexit, the biggest obstacle to that has been removed - the UK never wanted to be part of a Federal EU (because we always considered ourselves part of the British Empire/Commonwealth). There are other EU countries who aren't wildly enthusiastic about a Federal EU too, but it was always the UK being the most loudly opposed to it.
  - the_biot 5y ago
    It's true that the UK was always the biggest opponent, but don't kid yourself that the rest of the EU is on board with federalizing. There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. Just look at what happens whenever some EU treaty needs ratifying by national referendum.
    - blibble 5y ago
      > There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. that never stopped it before, just look at the "Constitution for Europe" rejected by the French and Dutch electorates it was then rejigged slightly and then pushed through as the Treaty of Lisbon (without pesky referendums)
      - Macha 5y ago
        The Lisbon Treaty did at least need a referendum in Ireland. It was rejected initially, partially as a warning shot to the then unpopular government between elections, and partially because of genuine concerns about the impact it would have on Ireland's military neutrality and for the concerns that the EU could then impose a minimum corporate tax rate on the country. As a result, the EU agreed a set of guarantees [1] that the Lisbon treaty would not be used to do either of these things (to Ireland specifically), and only then did it pass in Ireland. An EU army has more widespread opposition these days, so hasn't been raised since. Minimum corporate tax rates did not pass through the EU, though this year the US led an effort that is going to result in them globally via other avenues. [1]: https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_Lisbon_Treaty_Explained.pdf https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_L...
andylynch 5y ago
Remember you have MEPs representing you as well. European elections too often play a distant second fiddle to domestic ones but this really should not be the case.
- denton-scratch 5y ago
  MEPs sit in the European Parliament, which is a talking shop, with very limited powers. It's hardly surprising that few Europeans know who their MEP is.
  - Scarblac 5y ago
    I don't really have a MEP that's "mine", it's proportional representation,not a district system.
    - denton-scratch 5y ago
      No districts? Is this a national "party list" system? Where is that (pardon my inquisitiveness, and feel free not to answer)? Instinctively it feels wrong not to be able to vote for a representative you can identify; but I can't formulate a coherent reason why it's wrong.
      - Scarblac 5y ago
        In the Netherlands, in my case. Party lists, yes. Most European countries have that as far as I know, I thought the UK was an outlier.
        denton-scratch 5y ago
        I see. I wasn't aware that the UK EU constituencies were an idiosyncratic deviation. Of course, we no longer have MEPs! I often forget this - that's how much difference the MEPs made to my life.
- aembleton 5y ago
cycomanic 5y ago
I would argue that many national governments (and local data protection agencies) are doing things, this was the Belgium national data protection agency. The issue is really Ireland, whose data protection agency has been twarting enforcement efforts. The reason why they are important is that they are technically responsible for enforcement against many of the big guys because they have their hqs in Ireland, which was also the reason why they didn't want to enforce, economic interests.

ArnoVW 5y ago

There's a bit of that. But I think a big part of the reason is that national governments can not address international issues. The EU represents 300M people, and has the economic and political weight to make a dent. The same goes for other international issues, such as climate change, corporate tax evasion, cyber crime, etc.

oblio 5y ago
445 million people.

arlort 5y ago

This is not really accurate. The enforcement of GDPR is still up to national civil services/judiciaries, in this case it was a cooperation of multiple national protection authorities. Even the legislation itself necessarily involved national governments and national civil servants in national ministries GDPR being an EU level legislation has more to do with the absolute nightmare it would be for the internal market to have 27 different standards and the drastically lower leverage available for enforcement than disinterest in the subject

pseingatl 5y ago
There's this: • Austria: Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Belgium: algemene verordening gegevensbescherming / règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) • Bulgaria: Общ регламент относно защитата на данните • Croatia: Opća uredba o zaštiti podataka • Cyprus: Γενικός Κανονισμός για την Προστασία Δεδομένων • Czech Republic: obecné nařízení o ochraně osobních údajů • Denmark: generel forordning om databeskyttelse • Estonia: isikuandmete kaitse üldmäärus • Finland: yleinen tietosuoja-asetus • France: règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) • Germany: Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Greece: Γενικός Κανονισμός για την Προστασία Δεδομένων • Hungary: általános adatvédelmi rendelet • Ireland: An Rialachán Ginearálta maidir le Cosaint Sonraí / General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) • Italy: regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati (RGPD) • Latvia: Vispārīgā datu aizsardzības regula • Lithuania: Bendrasis duomenų apsaugos reglamentas (BDAR) • Luxembourg: règlement général sur la protection des données (RGPD) / Datenschutz-Grundverordnung (DSGVO) • Malta: Regolament Ġenerali dwar il-Protezzjoni tad-Data • The Netherlands: algemene verordening gegevensbescherming • Poland: ogólne rozporządzenie o ochronie danych • Portugal: Regulamento Geral sobre a Proteção de Dados (RGPD) • Romania: Regulamentul general privind protecția datelor • Slovakia: všeobecné nariadenie o ochrane údajov • Slovenia: Splošna uredba o varstvu podatkov • Spain: Reglamento general de protección de datos (RGPD) • Sweden: Dataskyddsförordning • The United Kingdom: General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)
- arlort 5y ago
  This is just the translation of GDPR in the EU languages, did you mean to reply under a different comment?

dmitriid 5y ago

> Our national elected governments are not interested in actually fixing things like this Data protection laws existed before GDPR. GDPR itself is not that different from Swedish data protection laws, for example. Everyone ignored them for years (in case of French laws, for decades, apparently). So, the next step is to pass and enforce the law through the EU.

johannes1234321 5y ago

The "EU doing things" is not detached from your national government. In fact all EU legislation is being approved by your national government in the EU Council and the EU commission has to report there. (As well as the EU parliament, however the EU parliament is weak ...) Edit: maybe as addition in the last point in parentheses: The EU parliament is purposely weak, as the EU is a union of states and the member state government want the power in the council and don't want to give up power.

the_biot 5y ago
Well said. I'd add that the EU has for decades been a convenient scapegoat for member governments to point to, when "forced" by the EU to do things that needed doing but are politically difficult. Think of all the national champions forced to live by market rules, like flag carriers, telecom monopolies etc.
Scarblac 5y ago
I know that. What I consider "scary" is that the EU can only do this because they're aren't directly elected and so not as subject to the typical democratic pressures. It points at a clear weakness of democracy.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  Pressure your government to vote "no" on policies you don't like or pressure your government to initiate other legislation. They have the power and responsibility. And yes, I personally would like to have a stronger EU Parliament relative to the Commission and Council. However there is no reason to let the national government escape with "it's EU law" after they approved it. (And yes, Council doesn't require unanimous vote for most items anymore since the Lisbon treaty, thus it is possible your government voted "no", but that then is democracy and they have to convince other governments ...) (Just a side note: I like GDPR and think it is to large parts good and push my government to support it)
  - Scarblac 5y ago

CalRobert 5y ago

If there's one thing you can rely on, it's an Irish enforcement body doing sweet feckall. No wonder they like to use the Irish DPC! The EU is our saving grace far too often.

colechristensen 5y ago

Europe is obviously walking very slowly towards federalism without saying it too loudly.

marcus_holmes 5y ago
Germany and France are saying it fairly loudly - they've never hidden their intent to make the EU a federal, unified, state. And with Brexit, the biggest obstacle to that has been removed - the UK never wanted to be part of a Federal EU (because we always considered ourselves part of the British Empire/Commonwealth). There are other EU countries who aren't wildly enthusiastic about a Federal EU too, but it was always the UK being the most loudly opposed to it.
- the_biot 5y ago
  It's true that the UK was always the biggest opponent, but don't kid yourself that the rest of the EU is on board with federalizing. There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. Just look at what happens whenever some EU treaty needs ratifying by national referendum.
  - blibble 5y ago
    > There is no popular mandate for that whatsoever. that never stopped it before, just look at the "Constitution for Europe" rejected by the French and Dutch electorates it was then rejigged slightly and then pushed through as the Treaty of Lisbon (without pesky referendums)
    - Macha 5y ago
      The Lisbon Treaty did at least need a referendum in Ireland. It was rejected initially, partially as a warning shot to the then unpopular government between elections, and partially because of genuine concerns about the impact it would have on Ireland's military neutrality and for the concerns that the EU could then impose a minimum corporate tax rate on the country. As a result, the EU agreed a set of guarantees [1] that the Lisbon treaty would not be used to do either of these things (to Ireland specifically), and only then did it pass in Ireland. An EU army has more widespread opposition these days, so hasn't been raised since. Minimum corporate tax rates did not pass through the EU, though this year the US led an effort that is going to result in them globally via other avenues. [1]: https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_Lisbon_Treaty_Explained.pdf https://www.iiea.com/images/uploads/resources/230535195500_L...

andylynch 5y ago

Remember you have MEPs representing you as well. European elections too often play a distant second fiddle to domestic ones but this really should not be the case.

denton-scratch 5y ago
MEPs sit in the European Parliament, which is a talking shop, with very limited powers. It's hardly surprising that few Europeans know who their MEP is.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  I don't really have a MEP that's "mine", it's proportional representation,not a district system.
  - denton-scratch 5y ago
    No districts? Is this a national "party list" system? Where is that (pardon my inquisitiveness, and feel free not to answer)? Instinctively it feels wrong not to be able to vote for a representative you can identify; but I can't formulate a coherent reason why it's wrong.
    - Scarblac 5y ago
      In the Netherlands, in my case. Party lists, yes. Most European countries have that as far as I know, I thought the UK was an outlier.
      - denton-scratch 5y ago
        I see. I wasn't aware that the UK EU constituencies were an idiosyncratic deviation. Of course, we no longer have MEPs! I often forget this - that's how much difference the MEPs made to my life.
aembleton 5y ago

cycomanic 5y ago

I would argue that many national governments (and local data protection agencies) are doing things, this was the Belgium national data protection agency. The issue is really Ireland, whose data protection agency has been twarting enforcement efforts. The reason why they are important is that they are technically responsible for enforcement against many of the big guys because they have their hqs in Ireland, which was also the reason why they didn't want to enforce, economic interests.