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My favorite part is: > All data collected through the TCF must now be deleted by the more than 1,000 companies that pay IAB Europe to use the TCF. This include
by phh 5y ago
My favorite part is:
> All data collected through the TCF must now be deleted by the more than 1,000 companies that pay IAB Europe to use the TCF. This includes Google’s, Amazon’s and Microsoft’s online advertising businesses.
It's not just that they need to find new ways to screw users. It's that since they screwed users, they also must lose their ill-gained data. Which will probably be a nice deterrent against them pulling the same shit again.
Edit: loose -> lose
- shadowgovt 5y ago> Which will probably be a nice deterrent against them pulling the same shit again. Unfortunately, there are reasons they want these cookies on there so badly that justify the cost to figure out how to comply with the policy and try again.
- rendall 5y ago> that justify the cost to figure out how to comply with the policy and try again I wonder if this judgment opens them up to civil suits.
- ljm 5y agoI wonder if it's that or if it's also a case of marketing departments going wild with GTM and Segment and the like, literally throwing the kitchen sink in front of the user's experience in a desperate attempt to measure and drive 'engagement'. I mean, if you take a news website like The Independent, there's not a chance in hell that a competent design and engineering team would sign off on all the bullshit that is dumped on top of the page. It's always added on at runtime.
- Macha 5y agoAre they marketing departments not being driven the by the same industry wide focus on OKRs and measurement as the engineers? They just are even less likely to get a default assumption of being valuable.
- Nextgrid 5y agoMy understanding is that they did not comply to begin with. However, enforcement is still lacking as I don't see a monetary fine, so effectively they got away with it.
- alextheparrot 5y agoI’m not sure how true this is, many types of data have diminishing returns after a few months. I’d be surprised if they lost money compared to not using these methods —- they’ve just lost the tail of incremental value.
- colechristensen 5y agoMillions of Google Analytics customers with suddenly blank histories going back (years?) will notice quite a bit, whole classes of employees basically just make charts about historical performance. Attribution in advertising is something which can last months for some products, and it's doubtful that a large proportion of companies import from GA and will lose their ability to gauge current performance compared to the past.
- alextheparrot 5y agoI agree with your position that people will notice and that some attributions will be affected. It seems like we’ve still given cake to the glutton, though, just without a cherry on top.
- rhn_mk1 5y agoCynically, I expect this will go the way of tthe cookie popups themselves: the law will be blamed, not the transgressor.
- buran77 5y ago> All data collected through the TCF must now be deleted At best the companies will have to delete months of data, the rest being stale or already fed through some ML loop that extracted any useful value from it.
- notreallyserio 5y agoWould they need to delete derived ML data as well?
- Nbox9 5y agoMy understanding is that as long as there is no PII is in the ML model (there’s not) then any existing models do not need to be deleted.
- phh 5y agoHow do you prove there is no PII in the ML model? It has been proven countless times that it's possible to extract learning data from models. I can't see how you can prove the opposite, except, maybe, with federated learning (but even then, you need to good "ratio" of noise)
- msla 5y ago> How do you prove there is no PII in the ML model? Is "innocent until proven guilty" not a maxim in European justice?
- Macha 5y agoThey have just been found guilty, that's what the ruling is, and the outcome of the ruling is they should delete data derived from the related data. The ML models took the data as input, I think it's fair to say that if they want to argue the ML models do not derive from it despite that, they should maintain the burden of proof.
- phh 5y ago
- 0xcde4c3db 5y agoIt's also extremely important that companies can't insulate themselves from consequences by outsourcing compliance functions to a "designated villain".
- Nextgrid 5y agoIt seems like that's what's happening here though. The IAB appears to take all the blame while everyone else gets away.
- rkangel 5y agoThey lose all the data though. They may have avoided some name smearing but it's the data that they really want.
- Nextgrid 5y agoI'd argue that the data has already been integrated into ML models or mixed in such a way that there's no way to even tell where the data originated from. While the logical conclusion would be to just delete any data they can't prove a legitimate origin for, I very much doubt this is going to happen. Most importantly, tens of billions have already been made using this ill-gotten data.
- heavenlyblue 5y agoOr just force all models to be deleted that had any input of that data in the first place. If they don't do that in practice let the whistleblowers do their job in exposing the companies.
- kova12 5y agoGood luck identifying these models. By now what caused what is so muddled, it could get a small army of lawyers to even start detangling
- jimmaswell 5y agoHow are they screwing users? By showing them relevant ads?
- MereInterest 5y agoBreaching privacy, having a detailed dossier of my online behavior, is itself a harm done onto me.
- ineedasername 5y agoBy not complying with users' lawful rights under the GDPR.
- jusssi 5y ago> By showing them relevant ads? If only. Generally they just manage to show me ads to buy more of the stuff I just bought. Or something I looked at and decided not to buy.
- bitcharmer 5y agoCountless articles and media pieces over the years on the plethora of unethical ways our data gets sold, resold and abused and still you ask what's wrong...
- dustymcp 5y agoYet No alternative have arrived to ads, people are used to free software how do you circumvent these things ?
- MauranKilom 5y agoWho said this ruling forbids ads? It only forbids user tracking (actually not even that - it just requires meaningful consent to be obtained before tracking users).
- akireu 5y agoAds aren't the problem, the surveillance is. That you can't have the former without the latter is a myth FB and Google peddle to justify their existence. They don't even need your data all that much - the duopoly the myth perpetuates is what matters. There's no conclusive proof that personalized ads are more efficient than old banner networks, much less that FB's or Google's services are worth the huge share of profits they take as intermediaries.
- patja 5y agoI think you meant to use the word lose not loose. I suspect you mean lose the data as in delete it, not loose as in releasing the data to others.
- phh 5y agothanks
- notpachet 5y agoThere is a popular anti-drunk-driving campaign in the US with the slogan "Booze it and Lose It!" ("it" being your license) My town messed up on one of the billboards, though, and for a while commuters got to see "Booze it and Loose It!", which conveys a somewhat more carefree message.
- dylan604 5y agoPics! or it didn't happen. j/k These are the kind of classic "Spell checking. It's impotent!" type of situations. For long bits of text, I can see how somethings might slip through. When it's only 4 friggin words, and it's a campaign being slapped up on multiple billboards for everyone to see, one might think letting someone else review/approve would be a good idea. Thinking it might have actually done that and still nobody caught it is even more funny/sad.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kmlx 5y ago> All data collected through the TCF there is no data collected via TCF: https://github.com/InteractiveAdvertisingBureau/GDPR-Transparency-and-Consent-Framework/blob/master/TCFv2/IAB%20Tech%20Lab%20-%20Consent%20string%20and%20vendor%20list%20formats%20v2.md https://github.com/InteractiveAdvertisingBureau/GDPR-Transpa... CMPs are the popups that save the preferences and thus enable the collection of the data. IAB only provides a spec.
- Macha 5y agoThis kind of "but technically" is not going to go well for them if that's what they try. Technically the CMPs don't collect the data either, the ads do and the website controls how the CMP relates to ad loading. The TCF is a spec, the industry agreed on this spec, built implementations and used it as justification of tracking. I think it's fair to call data collected by ads loaded under the idea that a valid implementation of the spec was proof of GDPR consent as "data collected through the TCF". Anyway, this is the press release, not the ruling. See C.2 of the ruling if you want to nitpick the way this is actually being ordered. https://www.gegevensbeschermingsautoriteit.be/publications/beslissing-ten-gronde-nr.-21-2022-english.pdf https://www.gegevensbeschermingsautoriteit.be/publications/b...
- kmlx 5y ago> but technically well, the difference is quite important.
- ovi256 5y agoI don't think it's much of a deterrent, because there's no clawback of the ill gotten gains from the use of that data. That's something done routinely in, say, fraud cases.
- ricw 5y agoPrecisely. Until all the profits + substantial deterrent fines occur, nothing will change. This will have been worth it to the violators. In effect this just encourages them to keep this practise going. This has to be treated like fraud. Why isn’t anyone going to prison for this? Happens regularly with fraud.
- ATsch 5y agoThey did get a 250,000 eur fine, however that is based just on IAB membership fees. This ruling should make it a lot harder for advertisers to hide behind the IAB though. One would hope that opens members up to more substantial fines in the future.
- UltraViolence 5y agoIn the end it should be mandated that all user data is stored locally and cannot be processed outside of its local jurisdiction. The U.S. is never going to accede that its intelligence agencies cannot access data gathered by its Tech Giants. All claims and soothing words to the contrary are a false belief.
- pseingatl 5y agoThat's a very likely outcome. Saudi Arabia passed its own GDPR (the PDPL) which does not permit the transfer of Saudi PII outside the Kingdom except in "extreme" circumstances.
- hngpt2 5y agoSo now they've destroyed user security in an attempt to destroy user privacy? That's actually genius.