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Great question. The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience of using Google Workspace. We don't offer controls that separate e

Great question. The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience of using Google Workspace. We don't offer controls that separate each piece of functionality within Workspace products. The reason there _is_ one governing both Workspace and non-Workspace data (the current Web and App Activity setting) is mostly historical in nature, and the fact that there are two existing controls (one for the admin, one for the user) means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. Hence the default on. But as noted in the email we'll be very transparent to users telling them that the setting is on, and it's also why this email went out 60 days prior to the change, as advance notice. That being said, there's an important note that wasn't communicated in the email since it was sent to (paid offering) admins: consumer (non-paid) users who have Web and App Activity disabled will have their Workspace search history setting _also_ disabled as part of the migration. That's because we recognize a user who has turned Web and App Activity off explicitly likely won't feel the need to benefit from Workspace search history either.

haswell 5y ago
> …means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. Hence the default on. This seems reasonable for new customers, maybe? but for existing customers this is pretty heavy handed. I get that you want users to experience the benefits of this feature, but I personally would prefer to be informed of the feature and its value, and guided to opt in. I’d prefer to make that choice. Especially considering the potential downsides of accidentally preserving all of one’s search history.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nixass 5y ago
I don't wanna ruin the conversation here but: > Great question This is exactly how politicians (or whoever is doing something nasty) will start the answer on sensitive question. Shady business.
- ComradePhil 5y ago
  Not always but definitely here. I'm sure they know exactly what they are doing... it's like Microsoft changing the default search engine to Bing with their updates.
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  There’s built in asymmetry here in that we talk to him as mostly anonymous individuals but he needs to respond as a company representative, so I think it’s understandable it would come across like that.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  It's also how someone might respond to any question if unexpected, or if they are trying to get through a meeting with the public that they have to do as part of their job but it is the part of the job they are less than comfortable with - put on an energetic happy-go-lucky public persona and plow through that with some Great Questions! and Wow, I'm glad you asked that! End up seeming a bit manic but at least they get through it. It's also how people will answer bad or a bit silly questions, and then try to turn it into a great question by rooting around in it and pulling something great out so as not to hurt people's feelings. Because of the whole there are no stupid questions thing. (just listing other reasons why people answer with Great Question, not insinuating anything here) It is also how someone might be expected to reply to a Great Question.
- mihaaly 5y ago
  I agree, the tone of the answer is very 'pretending to be user firendly while doing what is good for us', I cannot trust it. Not to mention the marketing logic of 'forcing users to try out new features', like if it was a positive thing not negative. Quite user hostile tone it is in my view.
  - pishpash 5y ago
    Google has pioneered "forcing users to try out new features" ever since they invented forced software updates. That's not new.
- 5y ago
pingsl 5y ago
- The ability of Google Workspace organizations to turn off “Web & App Activity” for all users will be removed. Why is this? The company should have control over how employees use the company assets.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Because the number of companies that disable this company wide is large enough that google believes that by muddying the waters like this employees will give them the loophole they need to get back at that data. The proper way to do this is: Admin level: - default to off - options - enable - disable - allow the user to set this - default to off - default to on
  - oblio 5y ago
    Admins are tech savvy so they could protect their users' privacy with 1 toggle. Obviously bad for business when 90% of your revenue is from ads.
enriquto 5y ago
> Great question. The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience (...) I remember, as a youngster, a Google advertisement that was in the form of a math quizz. One of the questions was about how many colors are needed to paint the sides of an icosahedron. The next question was: "which colors would you choose? Why?" I was utterly fascinated by the, so far unknown, company that wrote this funny ad that appealed so personally to me! Twenty years later, the mouth of Google uses wooden language with terms like "product experience". This is not only useless, but also sad and stupid. Damn, Google, what the hell happened to you? Your ass used to be beautiful!
- ArnoVW 5y ago
  Actually, I always thought that puzzles were a poor recruiting tool. But now that he explained the problem, with all it's complexities and stakes, I kind of see the relevance. Managing an application for 4B ppl is not something to sneeze at. There's a lot of different user profiles involved, and it's difficult to keep all of them happy.
- a-dub 5y ago
  happy to hear that you found corporate marketing to be moving. unimpressed by disrespectful and nonconstructive talking over of someone right in front of them.
  - ylyn 5y ago
    > unimpressed by disrespectful and nonconstructive talking over of someone right in front of them. What are you, the etiquette police?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - wnoise 5y ago
    "Talking over" is something that just doesn't apply to one reply on an asynchronous threaded forum.
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  I assume you mean that as an attack. Personal attacks will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
xg15 5y ago
> The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience of using Google Workspace. We don't offer controls that separate each piece of functionality within Workspace products. The reason there _is_ one governing both Workspace and non-Workspace data (the current Web and App Activity setting) is mostly historical in nature, and the fact that there are two existing controls (one for the admin, one for the user) means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. That's a very elaborate way to say "because we don't want to".
- extr 5y ago
  I disagree. I think the point is reasonable. I personally find it useful to refer to my past searches/activity, especially in a professional context, and it would be unintuitive to me if such a feature was turned off by default.
  - gruturo 5y ago
    People are just asking to have it off if they currently have the related setting off.
    - jcranberry 5y ago
      They answer it fairly clearly It is off if the related setting is currently off if you're a non paid user. However if you're a paid user it is currently on.
      - ncallaway 5y ago
        That just describes WHAT the behavior is more precisely. That’s not an answer as to WHY the behavior is that way.
  - oblio 5y ago
    What about... <<asking the user>>? Shocking, right?
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
> it's also why this email went out 60 days prior to the change Do users have the ability to disable the setting when they receive the first e-mail, or do they have to wait until the setting is enabled then go back and disable it? Are the users being notified, or just the admins? (The e-mail in the pastebin sounds like it went only to admins). Will users be reminded when the setting changed, or is that left to the admin/do they have to remember that and disable it once the change happened?
gruturo 5y ago
> Great question. Just because your company has a product named Android, doesn't mean you _need_ to talk like one, you know. > That being said, there's an important note that wasn't communicated in the email since it was sent to (paid offering) admins: consumer (non-paid) users who have Web and App Activity disabled will have their Workspace search history setting _also_ disabled as part of the migration. That's because we recognize a user who has turned Web and App Activity off explicitly likely won't feel the need to benefit from Workspace search history either This is actually (at a first read) GOOD news for individuals' privacy, and you bury it like this? I know there many be a bonus or two on the line here, but what the hell, you almost didn't get the message across. Please communicate like humans, at least as long as you still have humans as an audience.
dwighttk 5y ago
> means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. Then make a case for them to turn it on, don’t use a dark pattern.

haswell 5y ago

> …means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. Hence the default on. This seems reasonable for new customers, maybe? but for existing customers this is pretty heavy handed. I get that you want users to experience the benefits of this feature, but I personally would prefer to be informed of the feature and its value, and guided to opt in. I’d prefer to make that choice. Especially considering the potential downsides of accidentally preserving all of one’s search history.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nixass 5y ago

I don't wanna ruin the conversation here but: > Great question This is exactly how politicians (or whoever is doing something nasty) will start the answer on sensitive question. Shady business.

ComradePhil 5y ago
Not always but definitely here. I'm sure they know exactly what they are doing... it's like Microsoft changing the default search engine to Bing with their updates.
flyinglizard 5y ago
There’s built in asymmetry here in that we talk to him as mostly anonymous individuals but he needs to respond as a company representative, so I think it’s understandable it would come across like that.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
It's also how someone might respond to any question if unexpected, or if they are trying to get through a meeting with the public that they have to do as part of their job but it is the part of the job they are less than comfortable with - put on an energetic happy-go-lucky public persona and plow through that with some Great Questions! and Wow, I'm glad you asked that! End up seeming a bit manic but at least they get through it. It's also how people will answer bad or a bit silly questions, and then try to turn it into a great question by rooting around in it and pulling something great out so as not to hurt people's feelings. Because of the whole there are no stupid questions thing. (just listing other reasons why people answer with Great Question, not insinuating anything here) It is also how someone might be expected to reply to a Great Question.
mihaaly 5y ago
I agree, the tone of the answer is very 'pretending to be user firendly while doing what is good for us', I cannot trust it. Not to mention the marketing logic of 'forcing users to try out new features', like if it was a positive thing not negative. Quite user hostile tone it is in my view.
- pishpash 5y ago
  Google has pioneered "forcing users to try out new features" ever since they invented forced software updates. That's not new.
5y ago

pingsl 5y ago

- The ability of Google Workspace organizations to turn off “Web & App Activity” for all users will be removed. Why is this? The company should have control over how employees use the company assets.

jacquesm 5y ago
Because the number of companies that disable this company wide is large enough that google believes that by muddying the waters like this employees will give them the loophole they need to get back at that data. The proper way to do this is: Admin level: - default to off - options - enable - disable - allow the user to set this - default to off - default to on
- oblio 5y ago
  Admins are tech savvy so they could protect their users' privacy with 1 toggle. Obviously bad for business when 90% of your revenue is from ads.

enriquto 5y ago

> Great question. The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience (...) I remember, as a youngster, a Google advertisement that was in the form of a math quizz. One of the questions was about how many colors are needed to paint the sides of an icosahedron. The next question was: "which colors would you choose? Why?" I was utterly fascinated by the, so far unknown, company that wrote this funny ad that appealed so personally to me! Twenty years later, the mouth of Google uses wooden language with terms like "product experience". This is not only useless, but also sad and stupid. Damn, Google, what the hell happened to you? Your ass used to be beautiful!

ArnoVW 5y ago
Actually, I always thought that puzzles were a poor recruiting tool. But now that he explained the problem, with all it's complexities and stakes, I kind of see the relevance. Managing an application for 4B ppl is not something to sneeze at. There's a lot of different user profiles involved, and it's difficult to keep all of them happy.
a-dub 5y ago
happy to hear that you found corporate marketing to be moving. unimpressed by disrespectful and nonconstructive talking over of someone right in front of them.
- ylyn 5y ago
  > unimpressed by disrespectful and nonconstructive talking over of someone right in front of them. What are you, the etiquette police?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- wnoise 5y ago
  "Talking over" is something that just doesn't apply to one reply on an asynchronous threaded forum.

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago

dang 5y ago
I assume you mean that as an attack. Personal attacks will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

xg15 5y ago

> The premise here is that search is an integral part of the product experience of using Google Workspace. We don't offer controls that separate each piece of functionality within Workspace products. The reason there _is_ one governing both Workspace and non-Workspace data (the current Web and App Activity setting) is mostly historical in nature, and the fact that there are two existing controls (one for the admin, one for the user) means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. That's a very elaborate way to say "because we don't want to".

extr 5y ago
I disagree. I think the point is reasonable. I personally find it useful to refer to my past searches/activity, especially in a professional context, and it would be unintuitive to me if such a feature was turned off by default.
- gruturo 5y ago
  People are just asking to have it off if they currently have the related setting off.
  - jcranberry 5y ago
    They answer it fairly clearly It is off if the related setting is currently off if you're a non paid user. However if you're a paid user it is currently on.
    - ncallaway 5y ago
      That just describes WHAT the behavior is more precisely. That’s not an answer as to WHY the behavior is that way.
- oblio 5y ago
  What about... <<asking the user>>? Shocking, right?

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

> it's also why this email went out 60 days prior to the change Do users have the ability to disable the setting when they receive the first e-mail, or do they have to wait until the setting is enabled then go back and disable it? Are the users being notified, or just the admins? (The e-mail in the pastebin sounds like it went only to admins). Will users be reminded when the setting changed, or is that left to the admin/do they have to remember that and disable it once the change happened?

gruturo 5y ago

> Great question. Just because your company has a product named Android, doesn't mean you _need_ to talk like one, you know. > That being said, there's an important note that wasn't communicated in the email since it was sent to (paid offering) admins: consumer (non-paid) users who have Web and App Activity disabled will have their Workspace search history setting _also_ disabled as part of the migration. That's because we recognize a user who has turned Web and App Activity off explicitly likely won't feel the need to benefit from Workspace search history either This is actually (at a first read) GOOD news for individuals' privacy, and you bury it like this? I know there many be a bonus or two on the line here, but what the hell, you almost didn't get the message across. Please communicate like humans, at least as long as you still have humans as an audience.

dwighttk 5y ago

> means the vast majority of users don't even have the chance to try the feature out to figure out if it's useful for them. Then make a case for them to turn it on, don’t use a dark pattern.