4 ms·

Alcohol is a personality replacement for a large number of people in the US. I don't feel like I have the moral high ground for not drinking, but I really wish

Alcohol is a personality replacement for a large number of people in the US. I don't feel like I have the moral high ground for not drinking, but I really wish people would stop convincing themselves that drinking is in and of itself a worthwhile activity, or that they need to be drinking to say or do something. Bar crawling is incredibly boring. It can be made bearable by drinking, but that begs the question -- why aren't you just doing something where you don't have to be drinking to enjoy it?

openknot 5y ago
Counter-example: I went on one bar crawl with student organization members at college. The fun part was opening up and talking honestly with other people I typically had a more professional relationship with due to the nature of the organization. We saw a live music performance by a small band at the back of one of the bars, and every time things seemed dull, we changed locations and visited hidden-away parts of the city at small bars that were difficult to find. The novelty of the exploration and speaking openly to people was really fun. I suppose we could have explored the city sober, but I doubt that the vast majority of the other people would have spoken unreservedly without alcohol. I wouldn't do it again at my age, but it was a fun memory. It wasn't necessarily drinking that was the fun part, but rather the activities it enabled.
- seabird 5y ago
  The idea that alcohol helps you speak unreservedly when you otherwise wouldn't is one of ideas that bothers me the most. If you wouldn't say it unless you were drinking, it's either better left unsaid or something you should be training yourself to become comfortable (or at least capable) of talking about sober. Just because society at large promotes alcohol as an acceptable way to paper over not developing these skills doesn't mean it's better off for it.
  - openknot 5y ago
    This is a good way put it, and it could be a useful goal for the individual to aim to speak as comfortably sober as under the influence of alcohol. However, it's very likely that most people don't act like this, or even know that this is a goal to work toward. As an individual, I can act (or aim to act) unreservedly sober, but the other people I want to know better might not; and it takes more than one to carry a conversation. It's possible to only choose friends who are comfortable opening up without alcohol (I believe this represents most of my current social circle, though this was coincidental versus by design), but I believe I would have missed out on meaningful friendships in the past if I filtered out potential friends based on this criteria.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    It's not only about whether you personally are comfortable talking about something. It's also about whether the people you are talking to are comfortable with it.
goplayoutside 5y ago
There's a reason it's called "liquid courage." Alcohol is a disinhibitor. While there are different reasons that people use it, many find that it enables them to step away from their anxieties, if only temporarily, and feel a sense of connection to the people around them. I'm not saying it's a reasonable substitute for healthy communication and relationship skills, but for some the development of the same can be a long, slow, and difficult process. The use of alcohol as a "social lubricant" can help some people get through the hard times. Life is difficult for everyone, and I don't think it's fair to accuse anyone who uses alcohol as a way to lighten up of "not having a personality" unless and until you've walked a mile in their shoes.
- aeternum 5y ago
  Also it's not just to get through hard times. Some people have a high baseline level of anxiety especially in social situations. A small amount of alcohol can help bring out their personality vs. just standing in the corner. For these types of people as well, it's not that they don't have a personality, it's that they suppress their personality in stressful social situations.
colechristensen 5y ago
Modifying consciousness with substances is fun and something humans have enjoyed since prehistoric times (and probably some animals do too). You don't have to do it or owe it to the universe or anybody else to take part, but please don't go around wishing that people only have fun in ways that you like to have fun. Drinking can be a crutch for some people, a disease for others, but there's plenty more space for other things that it is, and maybe just let people be and don't wish people acted differently. >begs the question You should look this term up, it doesn't mean what most people use it to mean.
WheatM 5y ago
ryandvm 5y ago
Man, I hate these puritanical takes. Alcohol, like everything, can be damaging or even dangerous to one's health. I'm not a fan of drinking to excess either, but humans have a long history with mind altering chemicals, and believe it or not, many people live very productive lives and quite enjoy the anxiety reducing effect of a light buzz. How about you list your all your vices and we can go through and enumerate which ones we think you should quit? And if you have none, then maybe that's the root of your problem...

openknot 5y ago

Counter-example: I went on one bar crawl with student organization members at college. The fun part was opening up and talking honestly with other people I typically had a more professional relationship with due to the nature of the organization. We saw a live music performance by a small band at the back of one of the bars, and every time things seemed dull, we changed locations and visited hidden-away parts of the city at small bars that were difficult to find. The novelty of the exploration and speaking openly to people was really fun. I suppose we could have explored the city sober, but I doubt that the vast majority of the other people would have spoken unreservedly without alcohol. I wouldn't do it again at my age, but it was a fun memory. It wasn't necessarily drinking that was the fun part, but rather the activities it enabled.

seabird 5y ago
The idea that alcohol helps you speak unreservedly when you otherwise wouldn't is one of ideas that bothers me the most. If you wouldn't say it unless you were drinking, it's either better left unsaid or something you should be training yourself to become comfortable (or at least capable) of talking about sober. Just because society at large promotes alcohol as an acceptable way to paper over not developing these skills doesn't mean it's better off for it.
- openknot 5y ago
  This is a good way put it, and it could be a useful goal for the individual to aim to speak as comfortably sober as under the influence of alcohol. However, it's very likely that most people don't act like this, or even know that this is a goal to work toward. As an individual, I can act (or aim to act) unreservedly sober, but the other people I want to know better might not; and it takes more than one to carry a conversation. It's possible to only choose friends who are comfortable opening up without alcohol (I believe this represents most of my current social circle, though this was coincidental versus by design), but I believe I would have missed out on meaningful friendships in the past if I filtered out potential friends based on this criteria.
- TheCoelacanth 5y ago
  It's not only about whether you personally are comfortable talking about something. It's also about whether the people you are talking to are comfortable with it.

goplayoutside 5y ago

There's a reason it's called "liquid courage." Alcohol is a disinhibitor. While there are different reasons that people use it, many find that it enables them to step away from their anxieties, if only temporarily, and feel a sense of connection to the people around them. I'm not saying it's a reasonable substitute for healthy communication and relationship skills, but for some the development of the same can be a long, slow, and difficult process. The use of alcohol as a "social lubricant" can help some people get through the hard times. Life is difficult for everyone, and I don't think it's fair to accuse anyone who uses alcohol as a way to lighten up of "not having a personality" unless and until you've walked a mile in their shoes.

aeternum 5y ago
Also it's not just to get through hard times. Some people have a high baseline level of anxiety especially in social situations. A small amount of alcohol can help bring out their personality vs. just standing in the corner. For these types of people as well, it's not that they don't have a personality, it's that they suppress their personality in stressful social situations.

colechristensen 5y ago

Modifying consciousness with substances is fun and something humans have enjoyed since prehistoric times (and probably some animals do too). You don't have to do it or owe it to the universe or anybody else to take part, but please don't go around wishing that people only have fun in ways that you like to have fun. Drinking can be a crutch for some people, a disease for others, but there's plenty more space for other things that it is, and maybe just let people be and don't wish people acted differently. >begs the question You should look this term up, it doesn't mean what most people use it to mean.

WheatM 5y ago

ryandvm 5y ago

Man, I hate these puritanical takes. Alcohol, like everything, can be damaging or even dangerous to one's health. I'm not a fan of drinking to excess either, but humans have a long history with mind altering chemicals, and believe it or not, many people live very productive lives and quite enjoy the anxiety reducing effect of a light buzz. How about you list your all your vices and we can go through and enumerate which ones we think you should quit? And if you have none, then maybe that's the root of your problem...