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The issue here is not transparency, it's who the money was directed to. This is a policy question, and what type of currency you use is totally irrelevant. It's

The issue here is not transparency, it's who the money was directed to. This is a policy question, and what type of currency you use is totally irrelevant. It's already very easy to see who received money (https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/ https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/), what we're discussing is whether it should have been given to different people.

westurner 5y ago
So, in your opinion, the "And then where did the money go?" question is entirely distinct from the "Did those investments have the desired impact for the desired audience, per the predefined criteria for success?" question? Who were we doing capital investment for, in hopes of them raising additional separately-accounted-for monies? https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-25893860 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-25893860 re: https://www.usaspending.gov/ https://www.usaspending.gov/
- burkaman 5y ago
  Oh, are you talking about tracking the money after it's been loaned out? Like for a given dollar we can see that it was loaned to Company X, then paid to an employee, then spent on rent, then spent at a restaurant, etc. If that's what you mean then I agree it would be useful for studying the impacts of stimulus policies, although I think there are a lot of other privacy impacts we'd need to consider.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    You can always launder money to defeat such a trail. I'm not going to go into detail about how, just in case my ignorant ramblings have some novel techniques in there, but it's definitely possible. Like with banning encryption, the privacy impacts would be felt by the little people, and the big bad actors would be largely unaffected.
    - westurner 5y ago
      So we rely upon reports apparently generated from reconciled alternate accounting systems to determine whether the funds were appropriated impactfully?
      - westurner 5y ago
        TheGivingBlock specializes in handling cryptoasset donations with tax receipts. (We don't yet (?) prefill returns in the US) When you donate to a TheGivingBlock Cause Fund, you get a tax receipt by email and the donation is privately sent to each of the multiple registered nonprofit charities included in that particular Fund. TheGivingBlock Cause Funds map to the UN SDG Sustainable Development Goals; are categorically aligned to the #GlobalGoals Goals, but not yet (?) to specific Targets or Indicators. https://thegivingblock.com/donate/ https://thegivingblock.com/donate/ Re: CharityNavigator nonprofit rating methodology, SDG-aligned GRI Corporate Sustainability Reports, setting up a CharityVest charitable matching fund for your employees, SDGs,: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24412594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24412594 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-24412594 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-24412594 CharityVest feedback: https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-23907902 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-23907902 How should nonprofits be evaluated in order to invest impactfully? If somebody says "Strategic Alignment" again, will less-impactful cashflows be eliminated? When the government nonprofit invests in government services, nonprofits, NGOs, international aid, and for-profit entities, how do we evaluate per-investment/per-allocation ROI according to the predefined criteria at regular intervals, potentially with incremental commitment? So, the specific fund allocation control adjustments being requested here are presumably due to feedback (sensor data and nonlinearity) which may or may not be traceable to an actual funding suggestion allocation task item in the near future, presumably
        wizzwizz4 5y ago
        Most of the highest-impact charities wouldn't score highly on a “what happens to the money” metric. Think of the good stuff the Gates Foundation has been doing, or the GiveWell top charities. It's a good way of measuring the benefits of cash injection, but that's all.

westurner 5y ago

So, in your opinion, the "And then where did the money go?" question is entirely distinct from the "Did those investments have the desired impact for the desired audience, per the predefined criteria for success?" question? Who were we doing capital investment for, in hopes of them raising additional separately-accounted-for monies? https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-25893860 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-25893860 re: https://www.usaspending.gov/ https://www.usaspending.gov/

burkaman 5y ago
Oh, are you talking about tracking the money after it's been loaned out? Like for a given dollar we can see that it was loaned to Company X, then paid to an employee, then spent on rent, then spent at a restaurant, etc. If that's what you mean then I agree it would be useful for studying the impacts of stimulus policies, although I think there are a lot of other privacy impacts we'd need to consider.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  You can always launder money to defeat such a trail. I'm not going to go into detail about how, just in case my ignorant ramblings have some novel techniques in there, but it's definitely possible. Like with banning encryption, the privacy impacts would be felt by the little people, and the big bad actors would be largely unaffected.
  - westurner 5y ago
    So we rely upon reports apparently generated from reconciled alternate accounting systems to determine whether the funds were appropriated impactfully?
    - westurner 5y ago
      TheGivingBlock specializes in handling cryptoasset donations with tax receipts. (We don't yet (?) prefill returns in the US) When you donate to a TheGivingBlock Cause Fund, you get a tax receipt by email and the donation is privately sent to each of the multiple registered nonprofit charities included in that particular Fund. TheGivingBlock Cause Funds map to the UN SDG Sustainable Development Goals; are categorically aligned to the #GlobalGoals Goals, but not yet (?) to specific Targets or Indicators. https://thegivingblock.com/donate/ https://thegivingblock.com/donate/ Re: CharityNavigator nonprofit rating methodology, SDG-aligned GRI Corporate Sustainability Reports, setting up a CharityVest charitable matching fund for your employees, SDGs,: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24412594 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24412594 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-24412594 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-24412594 CharityVest feedback: https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-23907902 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#story-23907902 How should nonprofits be evaluated in order to invest impactfully? If somebody says "Strategic Alignment" again, will less-impactful cashflows be eliminated? When the government nonprofit invests in government services, nonprofits, NGOs, international aid, and for-profit entities, how do we evaluate per-investment/per-allocation ROI according to the predefined criteria at regular intervals, potentially with incremental commitment? So, the specific fund allocation control adjustments being requested here are presumably due to feedback (sensor data and nonlinearity) which may or may not be traceable to an actual funding suggestion allocation task item in the near future, presumably
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        Most of the highest-impact charities wouldn't score highly on a “what happens to the money” metric. Think of the good stuff the Gates Foundation has been doing, or the GiveWell top charities. It's a good way of measuring the benefits of cash injection, but that's all.