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While 1000% agree the current Tesla FSD beta is in serious need of work; comparing it to unreleased specialized hardware in trials setup by makers of said speci

by w0m 5y ago

While 1000% agree the current Tesla FSD beta is in serious need of work; comparing it to unreleased specialized hardware in trials setup by makers of said specialized hardware is a little disingenuous.

dragontamer 5y ago
But I'm not comparing it against the technology. I'm simply pointing out that Tesla __regularly__ crashes into balloon-children, to the point where a competitor literally used Tesla as a marketing-mule to show off how much progress they made. -------------- This entire marketing scheme that Luminar did only works because they 100% trust that the Tesla will run into that balloon child on a regular basis (!!!!). This is literally a live demonstration in a major convention center full of a live audience. I don't have any idea how seeded or unfair Luminar's test is in favor of Luminar's hardware. I don't even trust that Luminar's hardware works (I don't know if they're faking their tech either). But what I do trust, is for that Tesla to plow into that balloon over-and-over again on a reliable basis. That's how far away Tesla is from "full self driving", or whatever the heck they want to call it.
- simondotau 5y ago
  This is nonetheless comparing a product currently on sale with a development platform not currently on sale. Surely a fairer test would be to compare a Luminar tech development rig with a Tesla tech development rig. Luminar doesn't appear to have access to Tesla's under-development technology beta which is, as YouTube videos of FSD beta clearly shows, markedly superior to the technology currently deployed in most Tesla cars. I can't say whether the FSD beta would reliably stop for balloon-children, but from the warts-and-all videos being posted on YouTube, it seems highly likely that it would.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    > Surely a fairer test What? The "test", as far as I'm concerned, is whether or not Tesla will kill children on our streets. And given this test, it proves that Tesla's emergency braking capabilities are awful. I don't care about Luminar tech at all, frankly. If Luminar becomes available to buy one day, maybe I'll care then. --------- At the _ROOT_ of this discussion is a poster who openly admits to using "Autopilot" in school-zones. Given that Tesla will _NOT_ stop for balloon-children until its way too late (the braking action was _AFTER_ the balloon-child was smacked), I have to immediately reprimand the original poster. This is a critical safety issue that people must understand, "Autopilot" and "FSD" are NOT ready to be used in school zones, or other locations where children might run out into the streets randomly. This has nothing to do with tech-companies swinging their tech around at a show. This has everything to do with stopping the next child from getting smacked by an ignorant driver.
    - simondotau 5y ago
      By that logic, the fairer test is for an independent arbiter to compare Tesla's AEB with other cars on sale, modelling a variety of common collision scenarios. All that's been proven here is that a motivated competitor was able to identify one scenario where their development tech works and Tesla's does not. Let me be clear: I'm not saying that Tesla's current release version of AEB is anywhere near good enough. Clearly there is substantial room for improvement. If I had any influence over Tesla's priorities, I would make them package up the subset of FSD Beta necessary to perform AEB and get that deployed to the entire fleet as a matter of urgency. ------ As for whether a driver chooses to use any L1 or L2 driver assistance features in an inappropriate context, that is always the responsibility of the licensed driver. Engaging these systems is always a manual task performed by the driver. They are not on by default. If there is a legitimate concern here, perhaps the correct response is to institute a blanket ban on the use of any assistance technologies (e.g. adaptive cruise, lane centring) while in school zones.
kenhwang 5y ago
Though that scenario is generally well handled by the emergency braking systems found in the standard safety suite of regular automakers. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevention-varies-among-midsize-cars https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-c...

by w0m 5y ago

dragontamer 5y ago

But I'm not comparing it against the technology. I'm simply pointing out that Tesla __regularly__ crashes into balloon-children, to the point where a competitor literally used Tesla as a marketing-mule to show off how much progress they made. -------------- This entire marketing scheme that Luminar did only works because they 100% trust that the Tesla will run into that balloon child on a regular basis (!!!!). This is literally a live demonstration in a major convention center full of a live audience. I don't have any idea how seeded or unfair Luminar's test is in favor of Luminar's hardware. I don't even trust that Luminar's hardware works (I don't know if they're faking their tech either). But what I do trust, is for that Tesla to plow into that balloon over-and-over again on a reliable basis. That's how far away Tesla is from "full self driving", or whatever the heck they want to call it.

simondotau 5y ago
This is nonetheless comparing a product currently on sale with a development platform not currently on sale. Surely a fairer test would be to compare a Luminar tech development rig with a Tesla tech development rig. Luminar doesn't appear to have access to Tesla's under-development technology beta which is, as YouTube videos of FSD beta clearly shows, markedly superior to the technology currently deployed in most Tesla cars. I can't say whether the FSD beta would reliably stop for balloon-children, but from the warts-and-all videos being posted on YouTube, it seems highly likely that it would.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > Surely a fairer test What? The "test", as far as I'm concerned, is whether or not Tesla will kill children on our streets. And given this test, it proves that Tesla's emergency braking capabilities are awful. I don't care about Luminar tech at all, frankly. If Luminar becomes available to buy one day, maybe I'll care then. --------- At the _ROOT_ of this discussion is a poster who openly admits to using "Autopilot" in school-zones. Given that Tesla will _NOT_ stop for balloon-children until its way too late (the braking action was _AFTER_ the balloon-child was smacked), I have to immediately reprimand the original poster. This is a critical safety issue that people must understand, "Autopilot" and "FSD" are NOT ready to be used in school zones, or other locations where children might run out into the streets randomly. This has nothing to do with tech-companies swinging their tech around at a show. This has everything to do with stopping the next child from getting smacked by an ignorant driver.
  - simondotau 5y ago
    By that logic, the fairer test is for an independent arbiter to compare Tesla's AEB with other cars on sale, modelling a variety of common collision scenarios. All that's been proven here is that a motivated competitor was able to identify one scenario where their development tech works and Tesla's does not. Let me be clear: I'm not saying that Tesla's current release version of AEB is anywhere near good enough. Clearly there is substantial room for improvement. If I had any influence over Tesla's priorities, I would make them package up the subset of FSD Beta necessary to perform AEB and get that deployed to the entire fleet as a matter of urgency. ------ As for whether a driver chooses to use any L1 or L2 driver assistance features in an inappropriate context, that is always the responsibility of the licensed driver. Engaging these systems is always a manual task performed by the driver. They are not on by default. If there is a legitimate concern here, perhaps the correct response is to institute a blanket ban on the use of any assistance technologies (e.g. adaptive cruise, lane centring) while in school zones.

kenhwang 5y ago

Though that scenario is generally well handled by the emergency braking systems found in the standard safety suite of regular automakers. https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-crash-prevention-varies-among-midsize-cars https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/performance-of-pedestrian-c...