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This documentary by PBS claims William Shockley was an ego maniac who stole a lot of the credit for the transistor from his subordinates John Bardeen and Walter

This documentary by PBS claims William Shockley was an ego maniac who stole a lot of the credit for the transistor from his subordinates John Bardeen and Walter Brattain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XknGqr3Bo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XknGqr3Bo

aksss 5y ago
This is getting to be a trope - "what you knew is wrong, the guy who is generally given credit was actually an evil bastard who oppressed these other team members who did the lion's share of the work." I'm not sure we need sacred cows and I have no dog in a fight for credit for transistor, mouse, DNA, electricity or anything else, but the constant demand for deconstruction - "everything you know is wrong" - gets a bit wearisome.
- graderjs 5y ago
  Welcome to postmodernism?
  - mxmilkiib 5y ago
    Isn't it more poststructural? E.g. instead of some well defined "this one person invented X" narrative structure being the way society happens, the reality is more often nuanced (and badly recorded) with multiple personal involvements with the new concept. Though I think this is more just the subject of 'history' and figuring out what exactly happened. Some people seem to get defensive when they find it the history they have been taught is challenged. Why not be wearisome about the flawed system/culture that keeps promulgating half truths?
    - graderjs 5y ago
      > Isn't it more poststructural? I'm not an expert, so it might be. Although I tend to think that postmodern is a rejection of any objective authority truth. Whereas from what I understand about poststructuralists, they still believe there's some sort of Truth you can attain, they just disagree with structuralists about how to get there. And in this case I tend to feel it's more of a post-modern "tearing down anything that seems like an authority truth" than anything else. > Though I think this is more just the subject of 'history' and figuring out what exactly happened. Agree. > Some people seem to get defensive when they find it the history they have been taught is challenged. Why not be wearisome about the flawed system/culture that keeps promulgating half truths? Agree. but I think you can replace some people with most people. And it's very understandable to feel scared and angry when someone challenges what you think is true about reality.
      - aksss 5y ago
        Or simply boring. Telling a more nuanced story of credit is one thing, but continually seeking new angles to further deconstruct for its own sake starts to feel unproductive after a few rounds. It wasn’t this guy, Bob, it was this team; it wasn’t this team, it was really their moms who gave them a healthy breakfast each morning; it wasn’t really their moms, it was the vision and leadership of this guy Bob who was very troubled; it wasn’t this guy Bob but a woman and another guy on his team who were robbed of credit despite their struggles; it wasn’t the woman and the guy, the sugar industry lobby conspired to keep you from knowing the real story; damn, but this guy bob was cool; Bob was enabled by an industry supported by child labor. By unproductive I mean not adding much of substance but looking for rando new angles to make the story “interesting”. One of those angles comes with the accusation that you’ve been a willing victim of perpetuating untruth but here’s the REAL story. And I fully realize I’m old man yelling at cloud here. This is the way of popular culture story telling, but there’s some unspoken bargain in the dynamic with the audience that I feel is a bit insulting. That history need spicy new angles or interpretation to be of interest; that these layers are so often pitifully thin takes; that you stick around long enough you see it go full circle more than once. It’s a distraction from real learning.
        graderjs 5y ago
        Or old woman, I guess, yelling at cloud. Comment is WIP. I may add more comments in or below as I think about it.
        graderjs 5y ago
        > One of those angles comes with the accusation that you’ve been a willing victim of perpetuating untruth but here’s the REAL story. Totally. Well identified. I'd always been dimly aware that this was a thing but your words really brought it into focus for me. Thank you. Sometimes discussions on hn can really be enlightening. Thinking more about this I had the inspired thought that perhaps this is about a sort of civilizational decline in that instead of coming up with new stories, (inspirationally new tales of new things) we are just like a snake eating its own tail, like endlessly copying (a copy of a copy of a copy, in the fight club lingo), like the criticism that we hurl at the East (they are endlessly copying things) but in fact we're just endlessly copying things in our in our own culture. rather than delivering new, We're just constantly deconstructing. and that might be a symptom or even a cause of the sort of decline that we're in... Very interesting reflections and nice to be inspired by your comment to draw these two points together: the sort of civilizational decline of the West, and this trope about endlessly deconstructing histories that we're obviously engaging in.
- oceanghost 5y ago
  It rings true to me. I designed a piece of software that runs a 25 million dollar business line at a major corp. The moment I was done I was shown the door so my superiors could take credit. I was the first team member of a major linux distribution, I named it and designed a critical portion of the build system. The self-promoters quickly took credit for my contributions. I have a patent for a silly invention, but I am listed as the last inventor. The VP of the company is listed as the first inventor having had nothing to do at all with it. Yes, I'm an idiot.
- zardo 5y ago
  It's not the fault of people deconstructing history today that a previous generation gave credit for the work of groups of people to the most famous individual involved.

aksss 5y ago

This is getting to be a trope - "what you knew is wrong, the guy who is generally given credit was actually an evil bastard who oppressed these other team members who did the lion's share of the work." I'm not sure we need sacred cows and I have no dog in a fight for credit for transistor, mouse, DNA, electricity or anything else, but the constant demand for deconstruction - "everything you know is wrong" - gets a bit wearisome.

graderjs 5y ago
Welcome to postmodernism?
- mxmilkiib 5y ago
  Isn't it more poststructural? E.g. instead of some well defined "this one person invented X" narrative structure being the way society happens, the reality is more often nuanced (and badly recorded) with multiple personal involvements with the new concept. Though I think this is more just the subject of 'history' and figuring out what exactly happened. Some people seem to get defensive when they find it the history they have been taught is challenged. Why not be wearisome about the flawed system/culture that keeps promulgating half truths?
  - graderjs 5y ago
    > Isn't it more poststructural? I'm not an expert, so it might be. Although I tend to think that postmodern is a rejection of any objective authority truth. Whereas from what I understand about poststructuralists, they still believe there's some sort of Truth you can attain, they just disagree with structuralists about how to get there. And in this case I tend to feel it's more of a post-modern "tearing down anything that seems like an authority truth" than anything else. > Though I think this is more just the subject of 'history' and figuring out what exactly happened. Agree. > Some people seem to get defensive when they find it the history they have been taught is challenged. Why not be wearisome about the flawed system/culture that keeps promulgating half truths? Agree. but I think you can replace some people with most people. And it's very understandable to feel scared and angry when someone challenges what you think is true about reality.
    - aksss 5y ago
      Or simply boring. Telling a more nuanced story of credit is one thing, but continually seeking new angles to further deconstruct for its own sake starts to feel unproductive after a few rounds. It wasn’t this guy, Bob, it was this team; it wasn’t this team, it was really their moms who gave them a healthy breakfast each morning; it wasn’t really their moms, it was the vision and leadership of this guy Bob who was very troubled; it wasn’t this guy Bob but a woman and another guy on his team who were robbed of credit despite their struggles; it wasn’t the woman and the guy, the sugar industry lobby conspired to keep you from knowing the real story; damn, but this guy bob was cool; Bob was enabled by an industry supported by child labor. By unproductive I mean not adding much of substance but looking for rando new angles to make the story “interesting”. One of those angles comes with the accusation that you’ve been a willing victim of perpetuating untruth but here’s the REAL story. And I fully realize I’m old man yelling at cloud here. This is the way of popular culture story telling, but there’s some unspoken bargain in the dynamic with the audience that I feel is a bit insulting. That history need spicy new angles or interpretation to be of interest; that these layers are so often pitifully thin takes; that you stick around long enough you see it go full circle more than once. It’s a distraction from real learning.
      - graderjs 5y ago
        Or old woman, I guess, yelling at cloud. Comment is WIP. I may add more comments in or below as I think about it.
        graderjs 5y ago
        > One of those angles comes with the accusation that you’ve been a willing victim of perpetuating untruth but here’s the REAL story. Totally. Well identified. I'd always been dimly aware that this was a thing but your words really brought it into focus for me. Thank you. Sometimes discussions on hn can really be enlightening. Thinking more about this I had the inspired thought that perhaps this is about a sort of civilizational decline in that instead of coming up with new stories, (inspirationally new tales of new things) we are just like a snake eating its own tail, like endlessly copying (a copy of a copy of a copy, in the fight club lingo), like the criticism that we hurl at the East (they are endlessly copying things) but in fact we're just endlessly copying things in our in our own culture. rather than delivering new, We're just constantly deconstructing. and that might be a symptom or even a cause of the sort of decline that we're in... Very interesting reflections and nice to be inspired by your comment to draw these two points together: the sort of civilizational decline of the West, and this trope about endlessly deconstructing histories that we're obviously engaging in.
oceanghost 5y ago
It rings true to me. I designed a piece of software that runs a 25 million dollar business line at a major corp. The moment I was done I was shown the door so my superiors could take credit. I was the first team member of a major linux distribution, I named it and designed a critical portion of the build system. The self-promoters quickly took credit for my contributions. I have a patent for a silly invention, but I am listed as the last inventor. The VP of the company is listed as the first inventor having had nothing to do at all with it. Yes, I'm an idiot.
zardo 5y ago
It's not the fault of people deconstructing history today that a previous generation gave credit for the work of groups of people to the most famous individual involved.