Fair enough point. Both sides tend to exaggerate their own martyrdom. Atheists are treated appallingly in many quarters of society, and for that the anger is un

Fair enough point. Both sides tend to exaggerate their own martyrdom. Atheists are treated appallingly in many quarters of society, and for that the anger is understandable. And if you're referring to my post (re: dismissing atheism) then I didn't express well enough that I was discouraged about the kind of atheism I run into all too often, that seems either angry or merely out to tweak and provoke rather than discuss. I have tremendous respect for many strands of atheism. Nietzsche had a staggering integrity, his writing still amazes me. I have had many great conversations over many good beers with thoughtful atheists. I don't dismiss it -- I want to understand it mostly. I don't 'get' atheism the same way they don't 'get' me, but that's ok. Bar's still open and we can keep talkin. That's the kind of discussion I was trying to advocate.