113 ms·

> Nuclear fits in locations with insufficient wind and solar resources and provides reliable base supply. So remote islands basically (places not worth adding

> Nuclear fits in locations with insufficient wind and solar resources and provides reliable base supply. So remote islands basically (places not worth adding to a super grid). Fair enough. That's a very small niche though.

qwytw 5y ago
Is there currently any region in the world where wind and solar alone are capable of providing a reliable base supply?
- rekoil 5y ago
  Is that a rhetorical question? It sounds like an oxymoron. Neither solar nor wind can provide base power. Unless you can make hyperefficient batteries and guarantee that we'll see cloudless skies and constant wind.
- caoilte 5y ago
  yes. plenty. north america, europe, china - to name three examples. The larger your grid, the more reliably you can source renewables. It's not cheap to install the necessary high frequency inter-connectors but it is still waaaay cheaper than nuclear (see a different thread where i posted a link on an MIT study). Edit: also, you still need a lot of storage (probably 12-48 hours worth) but i posted another link showing how that's also way cheaper than nuclear.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    You only need 3 hours worth of storage. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26355-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26355-z Take a look at the graphs at the back. It shows a 99.99% reliable grid made up of an optimal mix of solar & wind, 3x over-provisioned along with 3 hours of storage and a continental grid.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      I'm skimming this rightn now, but a quick question: do they take into consideration the space required by wind and solar farms? Also, three hours of storage for a continental grid? Nice dream.
      - bryanlarsen 5y ago
        They don't take space requirements into consideration probably because it's trivial to dismiss. 40,000 square miles would provide enough energy to power the entire US with solar, in a country with 3.6 million of them. That's less than the space taken up by cemeteries. And continental is what makes 3 hours possible. The wind is always blowing somewhere.
        dmitriid 5y ago
        > They don't take space requirements into consideration probably because it's trivial to dismiss. Ah yes, so trivial. > 40,000 square miles would provide enough energy to power the entire US with solar No, it wouldn't. As the document yo link shows, even countries with similar makeup have very different solar and wind profiles. Also. You can't just wave your magic wand and say: "here, we now have 40k square miles". You're saying "oh, let's just randomly find an area larger than Austria (population: 9 million people + farmland + industry + ...) and cover it entirely in solar panels (without taking into consideration the place for all the required infrastructure to go with them". It is so, so trivial to dismiss, true. > The wind is always blowing somewhere. Only... What is the amount of that wind? Is there enough wind in Denmark to cover non-windy days in Spain? Will the grid be able to switch fast enough? (answer is: no, because renewable sources are notoriously slow to ramp up production)
        bryanlarsen 5y ago
        The power generation capacity in the US is worth trillions. That kind of money is a magic wand that can makes obstacles like 40k square miles pretty trivial. > Only... What is the amount of that wind? Is there enough wind in Denmark to cover non-windy days in Spain? That is the question the paper answers, but on a national basis.
  - missedthecue 5y ago
    The UK normally gets 25% of their electricity from wind but just the other night they were only getting about 2.7% of the demand fulfilled by wind turbines. They had to start up coal plants to fill the gap. I don't think over provisioning would fix that and you'd need about 12 hours of batteries to cover the shortage.
- pfdietz 5y ago
  See for yourself. https://model.energy/ https://model.energy/

qwytw 5y ago

Is there currently any region in the world where wind and solar alone are capable of providing a reliable base supply?

rekoil 5y ago
Is that a rhetorical question? It sounds like an oxymoron. Neither solar nor wind can provide base power. Unless you can make hyperefficient batteries and guarantee that we'll see cloudless skies and constant wind.
caoilte 5y ago
yes. plenty. north america, europe, china - to name three examples. The larger your grid, the more reliably you can source renewables. It's not cheap to install the necessary high frequency inter-connectors but it is still waaaay cheaper than nuclear (see a different thread where i posted a link on an MIT study). Edit: also, you still need a lot of storage (probably 12-48 hours worth) but i posted another link showing how that's also way cheaper than nuclear.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  You only need 3 hours worth of storage. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26355-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-26355-z Take a look at the graphs at the back. It shows a 99.99% reliable grid made up of an optimal mix of solar & wind, 3x over-provisioned along with 3 hours of storage and a continental grid.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    I'm skimming this rightn now, but a quick question: do they take into consideration the space required by wind and solar farms? Also, three hours of storage for a continental grid? Nice dream.
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      They don't take space requirements into consideration probably because it's trivial to dismiss. 40,000 square miles would provide enough energy to power the entire US with solar, in a country with 3.6 million of them. That's less than the space taken up by cemeteries. And continental is what makes 3 hours possible. The wind is always blowing somewhere.
      - dmitriid 5y ago
        > They don't take space requirements into consideration probably because it's trivial to dismiss. Ah yes, so trivial. > 40,000 square miles would provide enough energy to power the entire US with solar No, it wouldn't. As the document yo link shows, even countries with similar makeup have very different solar and wind profiles. Also. You can't just wave your magic wand and say: "here, we now have 40k square miles". You're saying "oh, let's just randomly find an area larger than Austria (population: 9 million people + farmland + industry + ...) and cover it entirely in solar panels (without taking into consideration the place for all the required infrastructure to go with them". It is so, so trivial to dismiss, true. > The wind is always blowing somewhere. Only... What is the amount of that wind? Is there enough wind in Denmark to cover non-windy days in Spain? Will the grid be able to switch fast enough? (answer is: no, because renewable sources are notoriously slow to ramp up production)
        bryanlarsen 5y ago
        The power generation capacity in the US is worth trillions. That kind of money is a magic wand that can makes obstacles like 40k square miles pretty trivial. > Only... What is the amount of that wind? Is there enough wind in Denmark to cover non-windy days in Spain? That is the question the paper answers, but on a national basis.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  The UK normally gets 25% of their electricity from wind but just the other night they were only getting about 2.7% of the demand fulfilled by wind turbines. They had to start up coal plants to fill the gap. I don't think over provisioning would fix that and you'd need about 12 hours of batteries to cover the shortage.
pfdietz 5y ago
See for yourself. https://model.energy/ https://model.energy/