4 ms·

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

egeozcan 5y ago
Exactly, why can't there be presets to set the trust level on websites? - Hey, it seems like you want to use our notification feature, and we are delighted. For us to be able to push you messages, you need to set out trust level to "App", to do this... I mean, nobody will open a menu and click on 3 things for a spammy website, but many people will do it for their favorite 3 sites. - Clicking on this button will trust this website (example com) as an [App] and give it the ability to store information on your device, and send you notifications. Please don't do this for the sites you don't trust. [Cancel] [I trust this website] Our grandparents can run random executable from the internet and with some common-sense training and scary popups from anti-virus and UAC, it is still risky but tolerable. This is way more secure and easier, why cant this work? - You already trust this app (example com) and it can already store information on your device and send you notifications. Clicking on this button will add it to your trusted apps and allow it to ask for files stored on your device by other apps, and also allow it to ask to access your contacts. These permissions will be only available when you are actively using the app. [Cancel] [Add example com to trusted apps] Please some browser implement this.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Except make it wayyyy more fine grained so I can give the app permission to store files but not send notifications or to access the files of one other app but not another. Something like Apple's fine-grained photos permissions would be good.
- mmis1000 5y ago
  Edge exactly did that. It collects feedback from users. If a site got rejected by literally every user. It will be put into the `don't even bother prompt the users` list. And start from this point. No edge user will be prompt actively by that site (There will still be a icon on the url bar. If the user really really want to enable it, he can click it himself).
  - sefrost 5y ago
    Do we know which sites are in that "no prompt" list?
    - miohtama 5y ago
      Sounds like a ripe for abuse on a competitor’s site. How does Edge identity the reporting users?
  - ramses0 5y ago
    FYI, that just buckets you into the "false-prompt" or "prompt-to-prompt" pattern. eg: https://blog.hurree.co/blog/ios-push-notification-permissions-best-practises https://blog.hurree.co/blog/ios-push-notification-permission...
- philistine 5y ago
  Make it even simpler. If the website is installed as a Web App on your iPhone home screen (it has an icon), it can ask for and send notifications. It appears in your list of apps in notifications in Settings and can be fine-tuned that way. You remove it from your home screen and the notification permission disappears. The bugs related to notifications currently seen in the beta are due to this user interaction not yet being implemented I'd bet.
littlecranky67 5y ago
The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic WebPush on PWAs will result in companies requiring it with dark patterns, just to increase your "engagement" with their product (read: send you spam). I have mixed feelings about webpush, I myself as a developer want it for my users, but I see the history of the web and how everything nice got destroyed eventually by spam.
- deergomoo 5y ago
  > that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden Not anymore they’re not. It wasn’t enforced when it was on the books; last year the rule was removed. Even Apple advertise their own services via push now.
- rezonant 5y ago
  As others point out, promotional pushes are allowed on iOS. A site can refuse to give you content if you don't allow push notifications but in practice that doesn't happen because the incentive of the site is to have more traffic. Android has had this capability for an eon and I have never experienced a site try to force you to accept push notifications. I have also never observed a site try to use push notifications as a "verification" method. Do you have an example of this in the wild? And you can always control your allowance of push notifications after the fact, either at the moment you receive the offending notification or from the site settings. Android specifically has a fantastic way to do this without even leaving your notification area. Not sure how Apple's system works in that regard.
  - zaphirplane 5y ago
    rottentomatoes is an example site that blocks if you have ads or tracker blockers

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

egeozcan 5y ago

Exactly, why can't there be presets to set the trust level on websites? - Hey, it seems like you want to use our notification feature, and we are delighted. For us to be able to push you messages, you need to set out trust level to "App", to do this... I mean, nobody will open a menu and click on 3 things for a spammy website, but many people will do it for their favorite 3 sites. - Clicking on this button will trust this website (example com) as an [App] and give it the ability to store information on your device, and send you notifications. Please don't do this for the sites you don't trust. [Cancel] [I trust this website] Our grandparents can run random executable from the internet and with some common-sense training and scary popups from anti-virus and UAC, it is still risky but tolerable. This is way more secure and easier, why cant this work? - You already trust this app (example com) and it can already store information on your device and send you notifications. Clicking on this button will add it to your trusted apps and allow it to ask for files stored on your device by other apps, and also allow it to ask to access your contacts. These permissions will be only available when you are actively using the app. [Cancel] [Add example com to trusted apps] Please some browser implement this.

AlexandrB 5y ago
Except make it wayyyy more fine grained so I can give the app permission to store files but not send notifications or to access the files of one other app but not another. Something like Apple's fine-grained photos permissions would be good.
mmis1000 5y ago
Edge exactly did that. It collects feedback from users. If a site got rejected by literally every user. It will be put into the `don't even bother prompt the users` list. And start from this point. No edge user will be prompt actively by that site (There will still be a icon on the url bar. If the user really really want to enable it, he can click it himself).
- sefrost 5y ago
  Do we know which sites are in that "no prompt" list?
  - miohtama 5y ago
    Sounds like a ripe for abuse on a competitor’s site. How does Edge identity the reporting users?
- ramses0 5y ago
  FYI, that just buckets you into the "false-prompt" or "prompt-to-prompt" pattern. eg: https://blog.hurree.co/blog/ios-push-notification-permissions-best-practises https://blog.hurree.co/blog/ios-push-notification-permission...
philistine 5y ago
Make it even simpler. If the website is installed as a Web App on your iPhone home screen (it has an icon), it can ask for and send notifications. It appears in your list of apps in notifications in Settings and can be fine-tuned that way. You remove it from your home screen and the notification permission disappears. The bugs related to notifications currently seen in the beta are due to this user interaction not yet being implemented I'd bet.

littlecranky67 5y ago

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic WebPush on PWAs will result in companies requiring it with dark patterns, just to increase your "engagement" with their product (read: send you spam). I have mixed feelings about webpush, I myself as a developer want it for my users, but I see the history of the web and how everything nice got destroyed eventually by spam.

deergomoo 5y ago
> that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden Not anymore they’re not. It wasn’t enforced when it was on the books; last year the rule was removed. Even Apple advertise their own services via push now.
rezonant 5y ago
As others point out, promotional pushes are allowed on iOS. A site can refuse to give you content if you don't allow push notifications but in practice that doesn't happen because the incentive of the site is to have more traffic. Android has had this capability for an eon and I have never experienced a site try to force you to accept push notifications. I have also never observed a site try to use push notifications as a "verification" method. Do you have an example of this in the wild? And you can always control your allowance of push notifications after the fact, either at the moment you receive the offending notification or from the site settings. Android specifically has a fantastic way to do this without even leaving your notification area. Not sure how Apple's system works in that regard.
- zaphirplane 5y ago
  rottentomatoes is an example site that blocks if you have ads or tracker blockers