7 ms·

As someone browser focused this surprised me. I've been using fetch() for years now.

zamadatix 5y ago
Not every browser API is an instant candidates to be added to Node's core. If there isn't a big performance hit from doing it as a user library or lack of functionality to do it as such in the first place then it's rare it'll be brought into core right away, if it will at all. It's nice to see the really popular ones make it in though, makes for fewer dependencies when doing browser compatible projects and also allows one to be lazy and not learn the Node way of doing it. Maybe we'll see websocket go into core some day too.
- herpderperator 5y ago
  This is what frustrates me so much about javascript. Everything is all over the place.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    Eh, I mean I get it JS lacks a real standard library but at the same time you don't see HN fill up with people saying C is all over the place because when they went to implement an HTTP call glib doesn't mirror libuv or C++ is all over the place because POCO doesn't mirror Boost and so on. The "all over the place"-ness tends to come more from people who act like changing to a newer library is the only way to code something new not from the lack of JS forcing a single API be used across every app regardless of type.
DrFell 5y ago
Intercommunicating backend services isn't new, but having an HTTP API call another one from the backend is a case that used to be more normally accomplished by calling both APIs from the frontend. The slow ooze of browser-oriented thinking onto the backend took time. Existing backend engineers, who thought it a harebrained scheme, had to eventually wear down, and give up.
- motogpjimbo 5y ago
  So when you write an application that integrates with an external service via an HTTP API, you think the normal way to architect such an application is to make all API requests from the browser? And you think that making such calls from the backend is a new and "harebrained" idea that backend devs have been forced to adopt against their better judgement? I'm curious to know what position you occupy in our industry?
  - DrFell 5y ago
    Yes, I think the normal way to integrate an app with an HTTP API is via the browser. Calling an external API from a backend that integrates directly with an client app has been rare for me. Payment processing is all that comes to mind, and that was usually through an imported API package. I've made data scraping tools, but they were unique projects, not part of an app backend. I am a senior full-stack webdev.
    - motogpjimbo 5y ago
      Has it ever occurred to you that your users can (a) see all requests you make to third party services, including your credentials and client secrets, (b) modify and replay those requests at will and (c) spoof responses from those services?
      - DrFell 5y ago
        I think the misunderstanding is, beyond special cases like a payment processing, why would you be calling third party services from your service? When I think of calling a 3rd party HTTP API, I am thinking of public APIs, like say a widget that shows the weather in a users area.
        motogpjimbo 5y ago
        I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and guess that despite having the title "senior", you have little or no experience in commercial software development? Because what you dismiss as "special cases" covers a vast amount of the plumbing of the modern web. In modern apps even something as simple as storing and retrieving files requires HTTP calls at some point in the stack, and such calls should never under any circumstances be initiated from someone else's computer. Which brings us back to the original question you responded to above. Contrary to your odd views of how software is architected, issuing HTTP requests from the backend is both normal and common enough to be banal. Node adopting the fetch API is generally a good thing as it allows JS developers to code against the same interface whether they are working from the frontend or the backend.
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
As for someone who just dabbles in JavaScript from time to time, there are so many things that surprise me...

Not every browser API is an instant candidates to be added to Node's core. If there isn't a big performance hit from doing it as a user library or lack of functionality to do it as such in the first place then it's rare it'll be brought into core right away, if it will at all. It's nice to see the really popular ones make it in though, makes for fewer dependencies when doing browser compatible projects and also allows one to be lazy and not learn the Node way of doing it. Maybe we'll see websocket go into core some day too.

herpderperator 5y ago
This is what frustrates me so much about javascript. Everything is all over the place.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zamadatix 5y ago
  Eh, I mean I get it JS lacks a real standard library but at the same time you don't see HN fill up with people saying C is all over the place because when they went to implement an HTTP call glib doesn't mirror libuv or C++ is all over the place because POCO doesn't mirror Boost and so on. The "all over the place"-ness tends to come more from people who act like changing to a newer library is the only way to code something new not from the lack of JS forcing a single API be used across every app regardless of type.

DrFell 5y ago

Intercommunicating backend services isn't new, but having an HTTP API call another one from the backend is a case that used to be more normally accomplished by calling both APIs from the frontend. The slow ooze of browser-oriented thinking onto the backend took time. Existing backend engineers, who thought it a harebrained scheme, had to eventually wear down, and give up.

motogpjimbo 5y ago
So when you write an application that integrates with an external service via an HTTP API, you think the normal way to architect such an application is to make all API requests from the browser? And you think that making such calls from the backend is a new and "harebrained" idea that backend devs have been forced to adopt against their better judgement? I'm curious to know what position you occupy in our industry?
- DrFell 5y ago
  Yes, I think the normal way to integrate an app with an HTTP API is via the browser. Calling an external API from a backend that integrates directly with an client app has been rare for me. Payment processing is all that comes to mind, and that was usually through an imported API package. I've made data scraping tools, but they were unique projects, not part of an app backend. I am a senior full-stack webdev.
  - motogpjimbo 5y ago
    Has it ever occurred to you that your users can (a) see all requests you make to third party services, including your credentials and client secrets, (b) modify and replay those requests at will and (c) spoof responses from those services?
    - DrFell 5y ago
      I think the misunderstanding is, beyond special cases like a payment processing, why would you be calling third party services from your service? When I think of calling a 3rd party HTTP API, I am thinking of public APIs, like say a widget that shows the weather in a users area.
      - motogpjimbo 5y ago
        I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and guess that despite having the title "senior", you have little or no experience in commercial software development? Because what you dismiss as "special cases" covers a vast amount of the plumbing of the modern web. In modern apps even something as simple as storing and retrieving files requires HTTP calls at some point in the stack, and such calls should never under any circumstances be initiated from someone else's computer. Which brings us back to the original question you responded to above. Contrary to your odd views of how software is architected, issuing HTTP requests from the backend is both normal and common enough to be banal. Node adopting the fetch API is generally a good thing as it allows JS developers to code against the same interface whether they are working from the frontend or the backend.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

As for someone who just dabbles in JavaScript from time to time, there are so many things that surprise me...