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I see the language surrounding "tribes" a lot, and I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it, or if they encountered it

I see the language surrounding "tribes" a lot, and I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it, or if they encountered it somewhere - perhaps in their own "area", which they definitely wouldn't call their own tribe. The conceptual framework of tribes, in this context, seems to be applied similarly whenever I hear about it. And then similarly, the people who talk about tribalism seem to have decided, that they have risen above such things.

h2odragon 5y ago
"Tribe" is not the best word in this context; it implies more connection... The group of people one looks to for confirmation of perceptions need not be "people you know and trust", just "people around you." However, I still hold that the opinion of 10 idiots is not intrinsically better than the opinion of a single idiot.
Bancakes 5y ago
>they have risen above such things. We physically don't live in tribes, so it's a fallacy to mentally live in one. Being born in a tribe practically predetermines your life for the worse - takes out opportunity for change and immigration.
- pasquinelli 5y ago
  i'm going out on a limb to say the comment wasn't about the word "tribe" or the merit of a tribe, it was about how people mimic each other without thinking. if what you think of as reality is determined by the group it will be in the million ways you never would've thought about. this is why people talk so often in tropes: the thoughts they're expressing aren't their own, they're just repeating tropes they hear. this way of talking of your tribe is just an example trope.
  - Bancakes 5y ago
    Do most people function like that in your honest opinion? Do you?
  - tomlockwood 5y ago
    Couldn't have said it better myself!
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    What's the operational difference between that and any language acquisition? If your implication is that we're entirely constructed from our influences and that therefore no part of us is original, it's very silly, very linear thinking. We're each unique assemblages of influences, and most of our utterances of any significant length are unique. edit: neither of our comments have ever been written before.
lmm 5y ago
> I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it, or if they encountered it somewhere - perhaps in their own "area", which they definitely wouldn't call their own tribe. What's the difference you're drawing here? Isn't natural language evolution the same thing as picking things up from the people you hang out with? (But to answer the question I think you're asking, I think the terminology spread from https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... )
hoseja 5y ago
I think tribe in this context is "social unit of size and type humans spent most of their evolutionary history in, are best adapted to".
pessimizer 5y ago
> I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it This doesn't make sense. You can't spontaneously evolve your own language; it's not a language until you've explained it to someone, and to do that, you'll have to use another language (whether verbal or physical.) "Tribe" is a shorthand that points at a few common meanings and a few less common ones, in at least English, and probably a few other languages. If you're confused about the meaning of the speaker, you ask specific questions in order to clarify it. If the speaker starts to get squirrelly about the meaning of the words they're using, suspect that they're repeating something they heard somewhere. When the same words in the same context shift meaning, that's called equivocation. I, myself, proudly declare alliances to particular "tribes." Talking about tribal thinking doesn't imply that you think you're above it. Implying in sarcastic passive voice that people who talk about "tribes" are actually members of tribes is a self-own that I don't understand the point of. It's only because we're both members of the English-speaking community that we have any means of communicating over the web.
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  > Implying in sarcastic passive voice that people who talk about "tribes" are actually members of tribes is a self-own that I don't understand the point of. Have you actually been on the internet recently? Holy hell. Its rife with people who think they're rising above everyone who isn't a free thinker! And the articles about rising above these petty allegiances are wildly upvoted!!! You're really demonstrating a lack of awareness about the culture of this website and many others. I can't believe you read the comment I was responding to and thought "hey, this person doesn't think they're rising above 'tribal' thinking". And yeah, I'm not sure about whether they precisely think they're in that position or not, so I used passive voice. I will become sued by you. Passive voice can be good, actually.

h2odragon 5y ago

"Tribe" is not the best word in this context; it implies more connection... The group of people one looks to for confirmation of perceptions need not be "people you know and trust", just "people around you." However, I still hold that the opinion of 10 idiots is not intrinsically better than the opinion of a single idiot.

Bancakes 5y ago

>they have risen above such things. We physically don't live in tribes, so it's a fallacy to mentally live in one. Being born in a tribe practically predetermines your life for the worse - takes out opportunity for change and immigration.

pasquinelli 5y ago
i'm going out on a limb to say the comment wasn't about the word "tribe" or the merit of a tribe, it was about how people mimic each other without thinking. if what you think of as reality is determined by the group it will be in the million ways you never would've thought about. this is why people talk so often in tropes: the thoughts they're expressing aren't their own, they're just repeating tropes they hear. this way of talking of your tribe is just an example trope.
- Bancakes 5y ago
  Do most people function like that in your honest opinion? Do you?
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  Couldn't have said it better myself!
- pessimizer 5y ago
  What's the operational difference between that and any language acquisition? If your implication is that we're entirely constructed from our influences and that therefore no part of us is original, it's very silly, very linear thinking. We're each unique assemblages of influences, and most of our utterances of any significant length are unique. edit: neither of our comments have ever been written before.

lmm 5y ago

> I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it, or if they encountered it somewhere - perhaps in their own "area", which they definitely wouldn't call their own tribe. What's the difference you're drawing here? Isn't natural language evolution the same thing as picking things up from the people you hang out with? (But to answer the question I think you're asking, I think the terminology spread from https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... )

hoseja 5y ago

I think tribe in this context is "social unit of size and type humans spent most of their evolutionary history in, are best adapted to".

pessimizer 5y ago

> I wonder if the people using that language naturally and spontaneously evolved it This doesn't make sense. You can't spontaneously evolve your own language; it's not a language until you've explained it to someone, and to do that, you'll have to use another language (whether verbal or physical.) "Tribe" is a shorthand that points at a few common meanings and a few less common ones, in at least English, and probably a few other languages. If you're confused about the meaning of the speaker, you ask specific questions in order to clarify it. If the speaker starts to get squirrelly about the meaning of the words they're using, suspect that they're repeating something they heard somewhere. When the same words in the same context shift meaning, that's called equivocation. I, myself, proudly declare alliances to particular "tribes." Talking about tribal thinking doesn't imply that you think you're above it. Implying in sarcastic passive voice that people who talk about "tribes" are actually members of tribes is a self-own that I don't understand the point of. It's only because we're both members of the English-speaking community that we have any means of communicating over the web.

tomlockwood 5y ago
> Implying in sarcastic passive voice that people who talk about "tribes" are actually members of tribes is a self-own that I don't understand the point of. Have you actually been on the internet recently? Holy hell. Its rife with people who think they're rising above everyone who isn't a free thinker! And the articles about rising above these petty allegiances are wildly upvoted!!! You're really demonstrating a lack of awareness about the culture of this website and many others. I can't believe you read the comment I was responding to and thought "hey, this person doesn't think they're rising above 'tribal' thinking". And yeah, I'm not sure about whether they precisely think they're in that position or not, so I used passive voice. I will become sued by you. Passive voice can be good, actually.